Comments on: Orrin Woodward and TEAM’s Trunks of Tools http://www.juicescam.com/orrin-woodward-and-teams-trunks-of-tools/ Is MonaVie a Scam? Thu, 02 Feb 2012 07:51:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: jim http://www.juicescam.com/orrin-woodward-and-teams-trunks-of-tools/comment-page-3/#comment-46659 jim Wed, 05 Oct 2011 20:43:10 +0000 http://www.juicescam.com/?p=37#comment-46659 Hi Scammed, glad to hear you have reduced your debt and benefited from some of the books you have read. I don't think anybody here is saying the books you have read are scams or are worthless. The problem I have is when these personal developement tools are positioned as part of a system that can lead everyone to success in mlm. The fact is at least 30 people must lose in order for one person to break even, regardless of the system they are plugged into, what they read, or how hard they work at the business. My understanding is distributors are told that if they plug into the system, if they do as their uplines tell them, if they are positive and persistant they will succeed and that those who failed are those who didn't follow the system, gave up on themselves and quit. I'm wondering if you are aware of the mathematics of this scheme, many people don't see it immediately. If you aren't please read the article here titled "It's not a matter of effort, it's a mathematical certainty". In fact me and Brent are having a good conversation on the topic presently. He has corrected the math of the original article and has shown how 30 losers are required in this scheme in order for 1 distribtutor to break even. You said "I have my sponsored’s best interests in mind. When they ask for honest advice, they get it." If this is true, it is now your responsibility to alert your downlines that the only way they can even break even is by inflicting loses on 30 of their friends and family. You also said "Different people rate success differently, I rate my success with the number of people I help, and whether or not I can look myself in the mirror at the end of the day." I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you previously did not know you were taking part in a product based pyramid scheme that requires massive losses be inflicted on your downline. If you have any questions on how the math works I will be glad to help you understand it, it would be my pleasure. Once you've come to this epiphany, if you are the honest man who values being able to look in the mirror as you claim, you must do the right thing. As an honorable man, I suggest you must own up to your innocent mistake, share what you have learned with your downline and confront your upline, they may not be aware of the math as well. By all means, keep reading the books and working on personal developement, but do so outside the structure of any mlm plan. The books are available at your local library or Amazon. It's cheaper, there are no group think or cult like influences and you won't have to sacrifice relationships or reputation. Finally, might I suggest a personal developement book that I think you will enjoy: 59 Seconds by Richard Wiseman. Good luck, I'd love to hear back from you. Hi Scammed, glad to hear you have reduced your debt and benefited from some of the books you have read. I don’t think anybody here is saying the books you have read are scams or are worthless. The problem I have is when these personal developement tools are positioned as part of a system that can lead everyone to success in mlm.

The fact is at least 30 people must lose in order for one person to break even, regardless of the system they are plugged into, what they read, or how hard they work at the business. My understanding is distributors are told that if they plug into the system, if they do as their uplines tell them, if they are positive and persistant they will succeed and that those who failed are those who didn’t follow the system, gave up on themselves and quit.

I’m wondering if you are aware of the mathematics of this scheme, many people don’t see it immediately. If you aren’t please read the article here titled “It’s not a matter of effort, it’s a mathematical certainty”. In fact me and Brent are having a good conversation on the topic presently. He has corrected the math of the original article and has shown how 30 losers are required in this scheme in order for 1 distribtutor to break even.

You said “I have my sponsored’s best interests in mind. When they ask for honest advice, they get it.” If this is true, it is now your responsibility to alert your downlines that the only way they can even break even is by inflicting loses on 30 of their friends and family.

You also said “Different people rate success differently, I rate my success with the number of people I help, and whether or not I can look myself in the mirror at the end of the day.” I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you previously did not know you were taking part in a product based pyramid scheme that requires massive losses be inflicted on your downline. If you have any questions on how the math works I will be glad to help you understand it, it would be my pleasure. Once you’ve come to this epiphany, if you are the honest man who values being able to look in the mirror as you claim, you must do the right thing. As an honorable man, I suggest you must own up to your innocent mistake, share what you have learned with your downline and confront your upline, they may not be aware of the math as well.

By all means, keep reading the books and working on personal developement, but do so outside the structure of any mlm plan. The books are available at your local library or Amazon. It’s cheaper, there are no group think or cult like influences and you won’t have to sacrifice relationships or reputation. Finally, might I suggest a personal developement book that I think you will enjoy: 59 Seconds by Richard Wiseman.

Good luck, I’d love to hear back from you.

]]> By: switch http://www.juicescam.com/orrin-woodward-and-teams-trunks-of-tools/comment-page-3/#comment-46653 switch Tue, 04 Oct 2011 16:03:25 +0000 http://www.juicescam.com/?p=37#comment-46653 LMAO! Ok, that's some funny shit, Scammed. LMAO! Ok, that’s some funny shit, Scammed.

]]> By: Scammed? http://www.juicescam.com/orrin-woodward-and-teams-trunks-of-tools/comment-page-3/#comment-46650 Scammed? Mon, 03 Oct 2011 22:57:10 +0000 http://www.juicescam.com/?p=37#comment-46650 I am a member of Team, and training materials are encouraged. I have never felt scammed in the 16 months I have been with Team. My upline have suggested some great books in the Team training system to me, books that have helped in many parts of my life. Eat That Frog has helped me stop procrastinating, Launching a Leadership Revolution has helped me progress at my job, Positive Personality Profiles has helped me better understand people and how they think and act, How to Win Friends and Influence People has helped me, well as the title says. The seminars I have attended on household finances has helped me reduce my personal debt load by nearly half and with the exception of car payments and a student loan, I am now debt free. Reduced my debt load by half in 15 months and never got a consolidation loan, didn't need to. I just followed some sound advice from a few people who had done it already.While I agree that if you don't actually read the Team site, you may be misled by the picture of the trunk on the Trunk of Tools. But it does say, Trunk not included. I have bought tools for both business growth, and personal development, it's the personal development tools I recommend the most, because they HAVE helped me, because I used them, I read them and followed their advice. A book is no different than buying say a bottle of juice, or a wrench, or a TV or anything else. It is bought for one price and sold for a higher one, it's called profit: and it's not illegal. And if a book is a tool, then just like a drill or a saw, if you don't use it, then it will make you no money and serve no purpose. I see a lot of sour grapes on this site, from a lot of people who went in wide eyed, and perhaps ran into some unethical upline sponsors, but there are unethical people everywhere: politicians, sales people, your boss... I have my sponsored's best interests in mind. When they ask for honest advice, they get it. When they want to know which tools get results and what they REALLY need, I tell them based on my own experiences. I lend tools because some of my downline aren't made of money, so I lend them tools to use until they can afford to grab some for themselves. Different people rate success differently, I rate my success with the number of people I help, and whether or not I can look myself in the mirror at the end of the day. I wish everyone here the best in luck in all their endeavors. Cheers and have a great day. I am a member of Team, and training materials are encouraged. I have never felt scammed in the 16 months I have been with Team. My upline have suggested some great books in the Team training system to me, books that have helped in many parts of my life. Eat That Frog has helped me stop procrastinating, Launching a Leadership Revolution has helped me progress at my job, Positive Personality Profiles has helped me better understand people and how they think and act, How to Win Friends and Influence People has helped me, well as the title says. The seminars I have attended on household finances has helped me reduce my personal debt load by nearly half and with the exception of car payments and a student loan, I am now debt free. Reduced my debt load by half in 15 months and never got a consolidation loan, didn’t need to. I just followed some sound advice from a few people who had done it already.While I agree that if you don’t actually read the Team site, you may be misled by the picture of the trunk on the Trunk of Tools. But it does say, Trunk not included. I have bought tools for both business growth, and personal development, it’s the personal development tools I recommend the most, because they HAVE helped me, because I used them, I read them and followed their advice. A book is no different than buying say a bottle of juice, or a wrench, or a TV or anything else. It is bought for one price and sold for a higher one, it’s called profit: and it’s not illegal. And if a book is a tool, then just like a drill or a saw, if you don’t use it, then it will make you no money and serve no purpose. I see a lot of sour grapes on this site, from a lot of people who went in wide eyed, and perhaps ran into some unethical upline sponsors, but there are unethical people everywhere: politicians, sales people, your boss…
I have my sponsored’s best interests in mind. When they ask for honest advice, they get it. When they want to know which tools get results and what they REALLY need, I tell them based on my own experiences. I lend tools because some of my downline aren’t made of money, so I lend them tools to use until they can afford to grab some for themselves.
Different people rate success differently, I rate my success with the number of people I help, and whether or not I can look myself in the mirror at the end of the day. I wish everyone here the best in luck in all their endeavors. Cheers and have a great day.

]]> By: Amthrax http://www.juicescam.com/orrin-woodward-and-teams-trunks-of-tools/comment-page-3/#comment-46508 Amthrax Fri, 19 Aug 2011 06:41:01 +0000 http://www.juicescam.com/?p=37#comment-46508 There's a good discussion going on my website pertaining to Orrin Woodward and his past anonymous blogging exploits. Orrin even alluded to these claims in his latest blog post. Check it out here: http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2011/08/16/orrin-qrush-the-many-blogs-of-orrin-woodward-part-one/ and http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2011/08/18/orrin-woodwards-five-principles-for-team-life/ There’s a good discussion going on my website pertaining to Orrin Woodward and his past anonymous blogging exploits. Orrin even alluded to these claims in his latest blog post. Check it out here:

http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2011/08/16/orrin-qrush-the-many-blogs-of-orrin-woodward-part-one/

and

http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2011/08/18/orrin-woodwards-five-principles-for-team-life/

]]> By: MadScientistMatt http://www.juicescam.com/orrin-woodward-and-teams-trunks-of-tools/comment-page-3/#comment-46126 MadScientistMatt Mon, 20 Jun 2011 18:12:10 +0000 http://www.juicescam.com/?p=37#comment-46126 DJ, I'm sorry to hear that, although glad it didn't turn out worse. While the Bible does say that it's a bad idea for a believer to marry an unbeliever, orthodox theologians interpret that to mean believers in God and Christ. It sounds as if he's substituted TEAM for God, and probably not just for one Bible verse. DJ,

I’m sorry to hear that, although glad it didn’t turn out worse. While the Bible does say that it’s a bad idea for a believer to marry an unbeliever, orthodox theologians interpret that to mean believers in God and Christ. It sounds as if he’s substituted TEAM for God, and probably not just for one Bible verse.

]]> By: D J http://www.juicescam.com/orrin-woodward-and-teams-trunks-of-tools/comment-page-3/#comment-46089 D J Sat, 11 Jun 2011 19:48:27 +0000 http://www.juicescam.com/?p=37#comment-46089 I've been in a 5 month relationship. Last night ends that relationship because I stated I was not believer of the TEAM business. Nor it's alinement with biblical principles as they say. He told me this was a deal breaker for our love and that our relationship was done. I thank God for keeping watch over me... I’ve been in a 5 month relationship. Last night ends that relationship because I stated I was not believer of the TEAM business. Nor it’s alinement with biblical principles as they say.
He told me this was a deal breaker for our love and that our relationship was done.

I thank God for keeping watch over me…

]]> By: switch http://www.juicescam.com/orrin-woodward-and-teams-trunks-of-tools/comment-page-3/#comment-46054 switch Mon, 06 Jun 2011 17:17:21 +0000 http://www.juicescam.com/?p=37#comment-46054 Marie says- "Monavie is not a scam if you do it correctly." ....this should be good. Please enlighten us on how to do this correctly. Marie says-
“Monavie is not a scam if you do it correctly.”

….this should be good. Please enlighten us on how to do this correctly.

]]> By: MonaVie Scam http://www.juicescam.com/orrin-woodward-and-teams-trunks-of-tools/comment-page-3/#comment-45958 MonaVie Scam Wed, 25 May 2011 22:52:49 +0000 http://www.juicescam.com/?p=37#comment-45958 How has the juice benefited you? Please list the exact benefits over say Welch's or Ocean Spray. Please do not use the: "<a href="http://www.juicescam.com/monavie-distributor-your-job-is-a-pyramid-too/" rel="nofollow">MonaVie Distributor: Your Job is a Pyramid Too!</a>" line. It makes you look ignorant of what a pyramid scheme is. Marie, clearly you didn't do your homework first. How has the juice benefited you? Please list the exact benefits over say Welch’s or Ocean Spray.

Please do not use the: “MonaVie Distributor: Your Job is a Pyramid Too!” line. It makes you look ignorant of what a pyramid scheme is.

Marie, clearly you didn’t do your homework first.

]]> By: marie http://www.juicescam.com/orrin-woodward-and-teams-trunks-of-tools/comment-page-3/#comment-45943 marie Thu, 19 May 2011 18:53:56 +0000 http://www.juicescam.com/?p=37#comment-45943 i am with a group who just joined monavie. they are in no way affiliated with TEAM and never will be. I have purchased teh juice and have benefited from it as has my husband. all companies are pyramids, from amway to GM, Chrysler and Ford. Someone at the top always gets more. A business takes investment but we should all do our homework first. TEAM doesnt even use the product monavie has to offer it is a scam and yes they are their own entity. Monavie is not a scam if you do it correctly. i am with a group who just joined monavie. they are in no way affiliated with TEAM and never will be. I have purchased teh juice and have benefited from it as has my husband. all companies are pyramids, from amway to GM, Chrysler and Ford. Someone at the top always gets more. A business takes investment but we should all do our homework first. TEAM doesnt even use the product monavie has to offer it is a scam and yes they are their own entity. Monavie is not a scam if you do it correctly.

]]> By: humiliated http://www.juicescam.com/orrin-woodward-and-teams-trunks-of-tools/comment-page-3/#comment-45933 humiliated Tue, 17 May 2011 04:03:26 +0000 http://www.juicescam.com/?p=37#comment-45933 Chrissy..you are absolutely right. I humiliated myself by becoming involved with MonaVie and I take responsibilty for that, I have never said otherwise. That said, I did a crazy thing called TRUST the people getting me involved while ignoring my instincts. That lead to the humiliation, hence my "handle". You will also experience this humiliation but you don't see that right now. Best of luck. You will need it. Chrissy..you are absolutely right. I humiliated myself by becoming involved with MonaVie and I take responsibilty for that, I have never said otherwise. That said, I did a crazy thing called TRUST the people getting me involved while ignoring my instincts. That lead to the humiliation, hence my “handle”. You will also experience this humiliation but you don’t see that right now. Best of luck. You will need it.

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