Orrin Woodward and TEAM’s Trunks of Tools

Hi again,
I noticed that you know of TEAM. I do buy many cd’s and books for my business but I have not bought the $1,000 tools, nor has anyone coerced me to do so. I look at the money to be made in this business and what it costs to by my materials. It’s almost laughable! Did you know that TEAM is not owned by anyone? That it is its own entity? That it has a policy council that makes decisions for us all, but that 100% of the money that is made from cd’s, books, seminars and other materials goes back to the TEAM members?

[WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The poster sent us ’0 which is not a hashcash value.

I am a math teacher, and yes I am associated with TEAM, so I am biased, (although I receive no money from them) but I had some questions? I was confused by your post. Did Orrin himself tell you that it’s cheap to start a MonaVie business and then try to sell you a $1000 tool trunk or was it another member of TEAM? OR was it one of the many other organizations that are a part of MonaVie? Because if he didn’t, it seems kind of dumb to call him dishonest? If it was another member of team, then how long had then been associated with TEAM? Newer members do make mistakes on the way they word things so I won’t say it couldn’t have been a TEAM member.

If they were a long time member of time, when they said “cheap” did they mean in relation to buying a coke, or in relation to what it takes to start a business? Because my brother just sunk about $10,000 in starting a restaurant. Even the Media Warrior 2000 is cheap in comparison to that. It’s very nobel of you to try to keep people from making a mistake with their money. Of is there some other motivation behind your website? Are you somehow in competition with MV? How much money do you make off of operating this web site?

You are trying to mislead people with your flawed logic, loaded questions, and incomplete information. Informed readers see right through your lies. Maybe your web site is the real scam?

Next, the word TRUNK, refers to the fact that it is to be stored in the TRUNK of your car. They don’t use the picture of the treasure chest to be deceptive (as demonstrated by the fact that the description cleary says trunk not included), although that is very nice of you to show your ignorance.

Blaming TEAM for your ignorance is like suing McDonald’s for having hot coffee. But geniouses like you are plentiful.

I find it interesting that scam and Orrin Woodward are associated all over the internet. I lasted 2 months in Team MonaVie. Tools was the focus, not the business of MonaVie. I left…then waited my 6 months, joined a different MonaVie group and I have had relative success so far. I own 2 other businesses of which I have well over 100K in it at this point. In comparison, I would have to say at this point I have gotten a better return on my investment in my MonaVie business then I have in both of the other 2 that I have had for over 15 years. I believe Team will be the “BAD” apples anywhere they go as they top leaders don’t practice what they preach. Just my observation and opinion.

Orrin Woodward has been spanked:
Tex has posted a few pages of the actual ruling here: http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2009/10/orrin-co-are-10s-of-millions-lighter.html

Critical page from the Arbitration decision:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_MPsmajz_-zk/SuI3R_BGLGI/AAAAAAAAAF0/rRa3y9B7t9U/s1600-h/ArbitrationAward_full%5B1%5D_Page_07.jpg

The source (Amthrax) is linked (just click on it). You can clearly see the screenshot of the prices. Prices may have changed since the publishing of the article. Prices are funny like that.

“I would also like to add that I paid more than the cost of the individual items for my first semester at University roughly 8 years ago.”

Then you should have just bought them individually, right?

The point of the article is three-fold:

1) The price of the trunk was less than buying the individual items (so much for a bulk price). (This may have changed since this was published)

2) There is no actual trunk despite the fact that picture is of a trunk. You don’t get any more misleading than that. (This may have changed since this was published)

3) MonaVie distributors often say that you can get in for $39 and that success depends entirely on you. Then when you don’t have success, they tell you to go to more conferences and buy more tools. Suddenly, the $39 that you were sucked into to start turns into hundreds and thousands. People don’t like to admit a bad investment and often throw more money into it in hopes of breaking even (it happens in the stock market all the time). I’m just pointing out here the costs of these “business tools” which knocks down the minimal business opportunity that MonaVie presents.

I was in TEAM for a full five years. I was involved when it was with Quixtar all the way up to Monavie. The lessons in leadership was great, but expensive. After going to everything they told me to go to and buying everything they told me to buy and telling everyone I possible knew about the business, I finished my five years more in debt then I had ever been. I went bankrupt. After quitting and taking my TEAM blinders off, I would have to agree that tools are promoted to be boughten FOR THEIR PROFIT ONLY. I know this because I made it into profit sharing and that’s what they teach. In todays world, there is no reason that if their true intentions is to get the information to people that they could not just put the audios on their website for people to download. They don’t do that because there is no profit in it. When I made profit sharing, I found there was much more profit from tools then there was from product.

BTW, any pro-team explination isn’t from the person’s mind that wrote it. It’s all crap that they feed you with on the CDs and stage. I’ve read no original thoughts so far.

Candace,

I made profit sharing during the transition from Quixtar to Monavie… the “in between” time when we had to wait 6 months before joining another MLM. Tools was the only business we could do seeing how there was no product to deal with during those months. The TEAM tool system was the same for both MLMs only the product information changed once Monavie was introduced to us. This is an expecially sore subject seeing how I had just “stocked my truck” with “needed” tools for the business just before they bailed on Quixtar. So all the money I paid for tools were down the drain because the information on them were Quixtar related. So then they decided our focus would be on leadership training to the masses and I was told that our “business” would be selling a leadership training system to the masses. After getting the company I work for to buy into it, that got me into profit sharing. Shortly after, Monavie was introduced and that leadership program was dissolved. That made me look real good to my company…NOT! So then I restocked my trunk with “needed” tools that pertained to Monavie. At all the seminars and Leadership conventions I went to, tool were focused more on then any other thing. I was told by my upline diamond to max out the remainder of my credit card on product and tools because it will all pay out in the end. Well… a year later I filed for bankruptcy. Now, my financial troubles was not all of TEAM’s fault but who tells someone that it’s a good idea to max out your credit cards? Out of the 300 some people LEFT on my team after 5 years, no one is at a point were they are making any money… NO ONE! I still check on it and there is absolutly no growth on a leg that is one of the big upline leader’s main leg. NO ONE is making it happen.

Ex-TEAMer: Wanted to reiterate Candance’s comments. I’ve written a number of posts about Orrin Woodward and TEAM on my blog (click on my name). Would appreciate any additional insight you might have by commenting there.

TEAM recently held one of its major functions in St. Louis this past weekend. Do you happen to know if TEAM is shrinking or expanding in the current economic climate in the US? I’ve watched Woodward’s presentation on making people feel okay with not making any money, so as long as they feel like they are “better people” by being in TEAM.

Awful quiet for the last five months ya’ll… finally tired of all the wining?

Orrin learned the tool scam game from 2 of the best…Don Storms and Dexter Yager. Storms son in law sent me a letter about this piece of garbage and I shredded it just like I should have shredded the Quixtar info before joining and spending thousands in tools.

Bubbaj, I like how you state nothing of significance in your post. You’re arguing against concrete evidence. Calling evidence “whining” just sort of puts a question mark over your head.

Come back when you grow up. Until then, leave the discussions to the adults.

i believe this business is based on religon which i believes will make htis business fail. faith may get people through alote of things, but money and customers are the fuel in any business so this is why i believe when they use religon as a way to sucker people in it will fail, they may do this for a lil while but something else will come along and orrin woodward will get chucked out and say he quit to move on to newer and better things which will be repeated all over again.

monavie uses churches to push there meetings which to me is a sign to of religon and there books speak of mormon religon alote.and alote of people on blogs talk and use religon in there braggings of monavie and how this juice cured there stupidity thatnks to god and because of god they found and have this juice in their lives, so i believe the religon is involved in this business and probly much more in monavie because one of the batman and robin duo orris and chris one of them is really involved with mormon ministry.

I don’t think it’s just my imagination that the religious angle in Monavie’s pitch has recently become much more intense. This seems to be yet another sign that Monavie is sinking. While Monavie may have had broader appeal once upon a time (when everyone was still in the dark about the organization’s extreme dishonesty and $hitty products), it seems now that they are retreating inward and focusing only on a core base of devout Mormons (or AOC members in Brig Hartless’ case), while alienating everyone else. While the company once tried to position Monavie as part of the “health and wellness revolution”, now the pitch seems to have degenerated into something akin to a high school swim team selling overpriced candy bars to provide funds for the their next big swim meet, but in the case of Monavie its’ overpriced $hitty fruit juice and instead of the swim meet, it’s a pitch to put bibles in the hands of Brazilian orphans through the MORE Project.

They seem to trying to coerce people with the MORE Project a lot more lately too, presumably because they can use it to guilt people into staying in the business for the sake of those orphans (fictitious) that MORE is serving (not really). But even The MORE Project’s cover story is crumbling now that we have had the chance to look over their IRS990 and identify the many ways in which they are deceiving people.

The more Monavie tries to narrow the scope and target of their marketing messages to keep their rickety ship afloat, the quicker it will sink. Those distributors who can’t tolerate the heavy religious messages (and especially the perversion of those narrow messages with the incongruent elements of greed, envy, and dishonesty) will bail, and prospective recruits will increasingly balk at the so-called “opportunity”. That Monavie would, in a desperate last-ditch effort, stoop so low as to leverage God and orphans, indicates that they must be quickly approaching rock bottom. It’s countdown to Kool-Aid time at Acaitown.

Vogel,

I submitted an article basically describing my entire experience. When the speaker asked “Stand up if you have felt the benefits of the juice” everyone stood up in unison. The way they stood up, just the entire atmosphere, it felt like he could have said “stand up if you feel the power of God” and that is how the reaction is.

If you have to “testify” your juice drinking habits, seriously, this is a sign of bad, bad thinking.

Humiliated, Mackwiz submitted an article using the link at the top of the site (a new feature). You could see it as it was waiting for me to read and approve it.

It is a great article and I encourage everyone to read it: Experiencing a MonaVie Meeting

Candace states “Vogel, I don’t think the religious angle has become *more* intense. It has always been so. It’s just that now, finally, people are talkign about it more. Thank goodness!”

I have to say that I experienced the whole religious angle from the onset also – it’s the religious aspect or the whole notion of “helping people” and “making people’s lives better” that allows people to justify conducting themselves in a manner that would ordinarily be questionable, but is also a manipulative means of earning trust in people.

It makes me sick to no end.

I agree Vogel. While there was definitely always a “guilt” factor present (you are actually HARMING your friends and family if you don’t get them “on the juice”) it wasn’t necessarily tied in with “religion” per se at the local meeting level. The conventions appear to have slowly morphed into a predominantly Christian based “speakership”, even the “motivational” speakers mention their Christian ties in their bios. I believe that intially there were more “mainstream” motivational speakers but this appears to have come to a screeching halt. One of two things appear to have happened. The non-religious speakers are either NOT being asked to speak, or, more likely, they have researched the comapny and don’t want their name/reputation sullied by association. Ergo “Christian Mania” at the R3G conventions.

I also noticed that the distributors have fallen eerily silent. The whole “Seisser Debacle” could have a great deal to do with it. But, I think that MV Corporate has likely spun it as “don’t give them ammunition, as long as you keep posting, they will keep lying… they will eventually just ‘go away’” Ah, yes, it is truly brilliant. Marketing 101 strategy…or psychology that my mother used on me when I was 7 years old. The problem is, as long as the information here is not being feebily “challenged” by the distributors, it will be MUCH easier for people to come to this site and see the forest for the trees. We will continue to exposing the distributors and company for what it is, a pyramid scheme that the public at large needs to stay far, far away from.

Gosh, I feel like asking “all the people who have been helped by Juicescam/Lazyman stand up”. I just did and I do believe I felt the earth shake a little!! Keep up the fight people!!

Vogal says, “they might be able to get a little more mileage out of this scam by convincing a few more churchgoers that they should buy/sell Monavie because that’s what God would want them to do. ”

Yes, this is exactly what I have experienced! My friends in TEAM have been told that MonaVie is an opportunity from God, and you are turning down God and letting down your Christian brothers and sisters if you refuse it.

MonaVie has also had a booth at the Spiritual Growth Workshop in Orlando, FL for the last two workshops (SGW is every other year) at least that I know of. This is not affiliated with the LDS or the AOG and I honestly doubt that the organizers of SGW knew what they were getting when they agreed to let them have the booth. At least I hope they didn’t know.

Interesting how so many people have so many opinions when they really have no idea. I am on Team and in Monavie and both are awesome companies, no two way about it. I work with a top leader in Team and can tell you from personal experience that they are very genuine people and care mostly about the people they are helping to succeed. Typical of result lacking people you are spewing hatred and disdane for those more successful than you could ever dream of being!

Amie – I do not doubt that there are people in TEAM who genuinely care about their “business partners,” but they too are being swindled. “Result lacking?” What results are any of us lacking? I can’t speak for everyone but personally I am quite happy with the results of my life, which includes quite a bit of success. “Results” and “success” are not measured by the number of cars you have or the square footage of your house or the number of 0′s on your paycheck.

I go back with Orrin to “Team Rhino” in Quixtar. He started as a bigot and through the tutoring and mentoring of Dexter Yager, became even a larger bigot. He learned the tool game from Dexter Yager and Don Storms and it is NOT about the juice. It is NEVER about the product. It is ALWAYS about the tools. Books, tapes and seminars is what they beat into your skull. THAT is how they make their money. Poor poor Amie…he probably hit the “Christian” nerve with you and you got to pray with him for more juice sales. My advice…GET OUT and cut your losses. Ask him why he is no longer in Quixtar. Maybe because one of his mentors was busted in a Ponzi scam who screwed many out of millions. Poor girl…Want some tapes. I have some “Team Rhino” bs hype tapes you can buy. Just imagine Mona Vie in place of Quixtar and it will be all the same crap.

Amie. You do know that we DO understand, right? That there are some of us that were misguided enough to become involved? Please don’t patronize us with that “you don’t know because you haven’t been involved B.S.”

And trust me, see how they supportive they are if you tell them that you KNOW you will have success selling Widgets for “Company Z” and that you are leaving, but you would love to have their ongoing support and mentoring. Are you naive enough to think that their soliticous behavior would continue? Give it a a go and see what happens. They will tell you that they are worried about YOU and what you are giving up but you won’t hear from them ever again (except to try to suck you back in). This, I can promise you.

But, you know what I hate most of all about what you said? You said
“Typical of result lacking people you are spewing hatred and disdane for those more successful than you could ever dream of being!”

HOw dare you. How dare you pieces of Sh*t come on here and call us “result lacking people” when you have no idea what success really is. I agree with Megavie. My success is not measured by the things I have. It is measured by the quality of my relationships, with myself and others. I don’t mean your “new” friends, who don’t give a crap about you other then that you are filling their bank account. It is about not pimping out your own true friends and family members to fill YOUR bank account. I almost destroyed some of these relationships and I realize that these are the things to be protected and worshipped…not some nutritionless juice or outdated motivational products.

You people have your priorities all wrong and it WILL bite you in the ass.

But, if you were to measure “success” by a bank account, how many of the people that are involved are actually making anything? I know people that have quit their jobs and lost everything in pursuit of this promised “success”. Please don’t bother telling me that they didn’t try hard enough…they quit their jobs to commit to this FULL TIME. How much harder can they try?? And collateral damage…loss of respect of family and friends.

Finally, my guess is that overall, financially, spirtually and in health, I am far more successful then you.

I go to the church that Orrin attended for years. At first he came in and genuinely looked to have a desire to know Jesus. That quickly turned into an obvious mad grab for his business. A large portion of our church fell for his scam and it has done immeasurable damage that could take decades to repair. I am convinced now more than ever that he goes to church to have 300-500 people twice a week to share his scam with using religion as a way in to spread his own gospel. He has since left our church and is starting the same sacrilegious “work” in Florida. I pray that the church in Florida does not fall for his scheme!! It will take my church years to recover from him and his tricks of tools and love of money that he swept into our church.

Amen Team Deception! It’s wrong on so many levels — exploitive, blasphemous, and counter to true Christian values. It’s about time more good honest church-folk stood up and called them out.

I ‘was’ a TEAM member. I worked with Mark Crawford, Orrin Woodward and in my business was a policy coucil member (Claude Hamilton). This business is a 100% SCAM. LISTEN TO SOMEONE FROM THE INSIDE. I “invested” thousands of dollars on ‘tools’, seminars, gas, hotel meetings, major seminars, cell phone bills, promotions, monthly incentives to get around my ‘leaders’, miles on my car, tires for my car, fast food (diet programs to lose the weight), promo clothes, promo product, magazines, monthly seminars, books, etc. I reached a high level of success and was invited to attend small meetings with these ‘leaders’ often. This is a SCAM. Its 100% based on taking advantage of ‘relationships’. You will do ANYTHING to maintain the realtionship. Including spending ALL of your savings in the HOPE of this opportunity serving your Dreams. The ‘next person’ will help you achieve your Dreams, and the ‘NEXT’ person will help you achieve your dreams. It NEVER will end. Why do you think the top leaders can never stop??? Why do the top leaders do open meetings constantly??? Becasue they have nothing better to do? becasue they want to meet the people on their team? NO!!! Because they need to continue to MOTIVATE the ‘leaders’ on their team. This business has DESTROYED my family. I’m not a victom, but I’m speaking from A LOT of experience with this ‘opportunity’. People DO NOT realize how much work you ACTUALLY need to do, NIGHT AFTER NIGHT – 6 nights per week, thinking about it – 24 hrs /day to make it work. ITS NOT PART-TIME, ITS A LIFETIME decision and all of those people who disagree, has had NO success in this business. I’ve seen months where I’ve earned 9K dollars in this business… and before you say, there’s proof that it works… whoa, hold up! after 5 years… I accumulated over 90K in DEBT due to this ‘opportunity’. I easily invested 40k per year into building it. The leaders will tell you… there is NO OTHER ‘opportunity’ in the WORLD that will help you achieve your dreams. “If you quit, you will NEVER WIN”. “This opportunity is your ONLY chance of achieveing your dreams”… the REAL reason is because the ‘leaders’ have built their homes with thousands and thousands of people credit card debt. Claude Hamilton’s new home in Nova Scotia is a good example. Orrin’s yacht (bought from Billy Florence) is a good example. This business will only trap you into believing that you need to have a PhD in Self Improvement to advance, and thats because the ‘leaders’ NEED you to continue to purchase new cds/books, OR they don’t advance. The REAL business here is selling tools. NO MORE LIES.

I’m afraid that TEAM is going to ruin my church. We have a few people involved with TEAM who constantly recruit at church. Every visitor is fresh meat to them. When new college students arrive at the beginning of a semester the wolves really come out.

Orrinsux, yes it is. Orrin has screwed the majority of our church over with his get rich scheme, your not alone. Most of the church people that got involved are finally realizing that they are spending thousands of dollars in tapes, CD’s, pep rally’s, and books and are getting nothing but a garage full of juice. Thankfully we are getting close to being able to go to church again and worship without getting cornered by the extra aggressive scam pushers trying to force us into their pyramid to improve there lives. Things appear to be getting better now that Orrin has saturated this market and has moved on to a new area to infect his scheme on. One of the benefits to people blindly following Orrin is that once he left the area a lot of the leaders left (or are leaving) and soon to follow will be the bottom of the pyramid workers that are just at church to make money and then we will have our church back.

Megavie, your comment on the visitors at church is accurate and really hit home with me.

My God. This sounds so sick and twisted. How can someone have no respect for the sanctity of a person’s religion? Teamdeception, I think that you have said it before but why did Orrin leave? Were they “onto him”?

Orrinsux, I can’t believe that he has been perpetrating this scam for such a long time and people are STILL falling for it.

That said, it sounds like a marriage made in heaven between Orrin, Dallin & Brig. They can’t have somehow sickeningly convinced themselves in their soul less hearts, that they are bringing spiritual and financial wealth to the people they come into contact with, because they leave a path of pain and destruction in their wake. I seriously don’t know how they live with themselves using a person’s faith as a tool of manipulation for their bottomless pit of greed.

The more that people speak out, the more convinced I am that these people are the devil in diguise.

Ex-team, your story is particularly compelling because in their eyes you had “success”, so you can’t be labelled as a “loser that didn’t try hard enough”. Yet, when you did the number crunching (which I seriously wish more people would have the sense to do) you lost a small fortune. Your biggest loss though, is your family, and for this Orrin should burn in hell. Although, you are right, you were not a victim, you were blinded by the glowing dollar sign he presented to you. Make no mistake though, it was never intended to be YOUR dollar sign. I wish that people would just put their “common sense” sunglasses on and see these people for the pigs that they are.

Orrinsux, Pastor Dickie was never the CEO of team that was his son Dickie III who has since quit the team. I do not know why he quit. Brady’s are gone along with most of the other high ups. They all cited business reasons but isn’t this the business that you work from home with ease? Something does not make sense. It’s probably all of the lawsuits they are settling that is putting a pinch on their wallets.
After monavie fails do they just go on to the next best thing? I can see it now “Monavie was going nowhere and we new it so Orrin moved us to anti-facial hair cream, and it will change your life forever, trust me”

Humiliated, not sure why he left just relieved that he did. He is on to greener pastures down in Florida. My guess is there was nothing left in this area to benefit him. The market has been saturated to point where pep talks are not working anymore and he needs fresh meat.

Nothing too surprising on the tasting parties acrossed the nation. That pretty much fits the bill there.

I’ve got some questions and concerns for Amie though.

Amie says-
“Interesting how so many people have so many opinions when they really have no idea. I am on Team and in Monavie and both are awesome companies, no two way about it. I work with a top leader in Team and can tell you from personal experience that they are very genuine people and care mostly about the people they are helping to succeed. Typical of result lacking people you are spewing hatred and disdane for those more successful than you could ever dream of being!

….first of all, if you dig a little deeper, you will find some interesting FACTS on your leaders (Mr. Woodward, and Mr. Larsen). You seem to think this is all opinion that we have? Dig a little more please! What exactly is it that we really don’t know??? THE TRUTH??!! Or is this you spewing off at the mouth what Team has shown you which is deception and lies and how “special” Team Mona Vie supposedly is?

This line is the greatest, most classic line from a Team member representation….”Typical of result lacking people you are spewing hatred and disdane for those more successful than you could ever dream of being!”….I have to say, this one really is quite common. I tell you what sweetheart, if you can show me a more successful team than my wife and two children that are succeeding everyday without “Team” Mona Vie, I will be glad to rejoin the “Team” and start drinking the joker juice again. Does this make any sense to you whatsoever because according to you, anyone not on Team Mona Vie will never be successful or not nearly as successful as the arrogant selves the Team holds within all because they aren’t supposedly making the cash they could be with Team….Making cash through lies, false claims, and deception is really not a good way to be successful in life….if you can wake up and realize that, but my guess is no… you can’t.

Sit back, pull up a chair and get your seat warm. The TRUTH is unfolding and people like you have a hard time seeing that because you haven’t been exposed to the TRUTH!

Thanks Vogel. I can’t do the figurative spitting all by myself.

Amthrax, Switch (frequent commenter here) emailed me that last night. You beat me to responding to it.

Nothing like a scam artist trying to warn people about scams!

Look at that….I think we’ve awoken the monster…. Mr. Woodward.

Here’s some of the many things Mr. Woodward says that he tries to cover his ass on but isn’t quite telling the truth…

Mr. Woodward says-
“Anonymous Victims Online”
\
“If anyone leaves the TEAM unhappy, it wasn’t through lack of concern, but through lack of interest by the customer to address.”

Of course, even after asking so many times, Mr. Woodward still points the finger at the customer/member in lack of interest on our part. How can it be Team’s fault? Right!?

“Perhaps, the real reason that many post in Networking are anonymous, postings that act as if they are upset at the company, are because they are from competitors, not real customers.”

That would be false sir. I’m living proof of that one as I was a “die hard TEAMER”. Nice try though.

“These are the bottom feeders of Networking, the parasite marketers, who, believing in a win-lose scarcity mentality, blatantly attack one company’s reputation for the alleged benefits supplied to their current company.”

Wrong again sir, AGAIN, I was actually part of Quixtar, your “TEAM” then unfortunately I made the leap from hell to TEAM Mona Vie. I guess I’ve been proven wrong with your name calling cover ups. You really do preach that. The proof really is there!

“Sadly, this egregious behavior happens often, leading to much of the negative written online. When the perceived opportunity for gain exceeds the applied character of those involved, parasite marketing will typically occur.”

Again, this has nothing to do with any other competitor in the mix but yet, you falsely accusing other companies of doing some kind of dirty work is quite unprofessional I just may add when DEFINITELY NOT TRUE!

“online blogging holds no value with me.”

Then why are you reading?

And here’s my prediction about the next MLM of the day for TEAM – it will be something so insanely overpriced and worthless, so insanely hard to sell that there will still be a need to buy lots and lots of tools. In fact it may be so hard to sell that all you can do is find people to become distributors who find other people to become distributors who find other people to become distributors, and “self-consume” the product.

Vogel. I note that Rykel has taken umbrage with your criticism of the divine Mr. W. on the Amthrax site. I anxiously await your delicious response to him/her/it.

Rykel also commented that Ex-team stated that “it destroyed my family but I am not a victim” and interpreted it as a positive thing for TEAM. Here is what Rykel says;

“There are also conflicting accounts within these defamers… for example, in the article above, the anonymous detractor said, “This business has DESTROYED my family. I’m not a victom (sic)”… so which is which, are you a victim because your family has been DESTROYED (are you sure?? in what way??) OR are you NOT a victim?”

Are you kidding me? Are you that STUPID that you didn’t understand that Ex-teamer was trying to say that he/she was simply taking responsibility for falling for this scam out of greed or naivete? I don’t think that you are that stupid, I think you are trying to manipulate (and not successfully) and detract from the impact of Ex-teamer’s compelling account of his/her experience with TEAM & Orrin.

Aussie – Exactly. I never needed “motivational tools” to sell Girl Scout cookies. It’s juice. Would you like some juice? I’ll sell you a bottle. End of story.

Just thought I would check out the TEAM website to see if anything new was happening…..Well, there happens to be a lack of anything related to Monavie…… ?????

Barkin, they’re moving away from the product, even a year and a half ago when I was actually active with TEAM, they were talking about it. I think they’ll stop completely with Monavie in the near future, especially once the feds crack down on Larsen and co.

Kroland, TEAM is very expensive to say the least, it’s extremely controlling, so I’m glad you’re not involved with those guys anymore, now they’re touting life materials, only thing is, they’ll suck the life right out of you! I can just imagine this huge influx of income that’ll only pad the Woodwards’ pockets once they leave MV and go solo for a bit – until they find another MLM….

Bloodsuckers.

Danny, it’s funny that you mentioned that. One of the things my upline told me several times during my time in TEAM was to sit at different places at church and get to know as many people as possible. Get acquainted with them and get their phone numbers. Then set up appointments to show them “The Plan”. Also, we both knew an elderly lady from church for quite a long time, and we went over to her flat to show that plan, and she didn’t want it, it was all too expensive. Then she told me via telephone that she wanted us to come for fellowship – just Christian fellowship, and I told that to my sponsor, she told me “No, we don’t do that in business, we have to get people into The Business”. I was put off by that statement. I now realise that the idea was to get as many people into TEAM, and that if there’s any real relationships formed, it would be within TEAM, not outsiders…ugh.

That’s ***NOT*** how a real, legitimate business operate.

Anyone remember Orrin’s totally disingenuous explanation about what a scam is?

http://orrinwoodward.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2010/11/11/4677797.html

Here’s an interesting article from ESPN on how athletes get scammed. It’s relevant to Orrin because you see that there are many ways to use coercion without force, and you also see that some of the same techniques documented in this article are used by Orrin Woodward himself.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6408849

Can you spot the similarities?

I also love how Orrin blows his own horn and touts that meaningless Leadership Guru BS. He knows he’s scamming people so he lamely tries a misdirection — look! the government is scamming you, not us! He’s a soulless shark.

Orrin was taught by two of the best when it comes to turning a MLM into “God’s Business”…Dexter Yager and Don Storms

I sincerely hope the roof comes crashing down on these piece of $hit pyramid hustlers some day and all the lies, deceit and manipulations come to light…Orrin Woodward, TEAM, Brig Hart, Larceny – I shudder to think what the dollar amounts are that they’ve defrauded from people and communities over the years (noting the previous scams they were involved in as well), let alone the devastation on family relationships, friendships, etc.

We never heard from TEAM “max out your credit card”, What we heard is if you use the tools buy them, if not don’t. Team system is cheap. My son went to private school and the cost of his schooling that qualified him to be an employee or build his business cost as much as it would cost if we were on the Leadership System package for 36 years! If anyone buys a specialty coffe or attend a sporting even pay parking tickets etc on a normal regular bases they would pay more than system. We used common sense. We bought what we felt was needed and it made immence difference in our lives. We also S type business owners and build through TEAM. This site is bitter spirited and blaming. Sad to see that all those Cds and teaching were wasted. If you still have some of them in your garage , listen to them, even if it was from the other business. They have value that many can still use and benefit from. We are greatful for TEAM and there is alway two sides to each story. If you felt you have been missled it is possible as people are people and no matter how good an organization is harm can happen. But we are all responsible to use own judgement and think for ourselfs. The fact does not lie. How many peopel did not give their name on this post? How many people are on the top 10 Leadership list? How many people published books that teaches principles? Anyone can have an oppinion as long as they have internet access and can hide thier identity.

What the hell are you talking about Erika? You have NOT stated ONE fact in your post? Please cite the facts that you are referring to and their source.

The people that are misleading are the ones at the TOP! Mr. Woodward is a leader all right, a scam leader. What he is doing is essentially white collar crime and you are defending him. I really feel sorry for you as it sounds like you have bought it hook, line and sinker but we will continue to stop other people from being victimized and THAT my friend IS a fact.

There are a lot of comments from both sides here. I have to say, I have been in ML for 10.5 years now, and make very little. I am on the system of CDs and books, seminars and Majors. I don’t care. The money I have spent has saved my marriage, helped me raise my children, given me patience with my mother in law and ex husband, given me hope for the future and restored my faith in God. I don’t care if I drink the juice, which I feel better on, read books and listen for the rest of my life with very little income, it is all worth it. All you who have taken time to document negative, shame! Spread positive, let folks learn on their own. I don’t make a lot of money, because I don’t contact enough people. My problem. I have what I can use, and will keep trying to spread the word. In the meantime, “if you don’t have nothing nice to say, don’t say nothing at all”. (paraphrased from Bambi, I think)

If they really cared about keeping the cost of tools affordable, they would put all the recordings on their website as a mp3 download that everyone could have access to. They would announce the book of the month and let the people go get it themselves at a discounted price from Barnes and Nobels or someplace like it. But they won’t do that because they wouldn’t make money then. MOST of their money is made by the “tools”, not the product. Run while you still have money in your bank account!

If your people’s marriages need help, parents need help raising their children, a MLM is NOT the place to look. Come on folks and see how silly that sounds. Step back out of the situation and think just how silly that is! Get counseling, go to your house of worship, but NOT an MLM. That is just the typical brainwashing. I have been in MLMs and never once had the thought to seek out help or guidance from somebody who wanted my money (my upline) If you seek help from books, tapes and seminars, there are much better places to find those than a MLM. Much more qualified people that “businessmen”. I guess it is true what is said, “Ignorance is Bliss”.

@Scammed By MLM Pros:
I HAD no house of worship. Being in the group, who PRAYED before a meeting (what a brainwashing idea!) made me uncomfortable, until I allowed the THOUGHT back in my head and heart that I was in the right place. We have prayers, religious Sunday worships. Yes, too right wing for me, too political sometimes, BUT, I get what I need. Direction, association. I AM in counseling, for a childhood of horrors. Guess what! This group of friends I have w/TMV is more faithful than any I had all my long life. Guess we’re just a group getting scammed together. Or rich. Yep, I’ll choose rich. In faith, finance, friendship. The list goes on. You are welcome to join. http://www.the-team.biz/mv1037784

@Anonymous Aussie: You can’t tell me Orrin is a pyramid hustler. I have met him too many times. The “mirage of time and ff” is not only possible, it is being accomplished by so many that I am working with. It’s totally up to the person and how they want to work. Orrin and Chris have a SYSTEM, just like McDonald’s. Do you like MikkyD’s? Do you go there? I don’t like it, but I go there when it is more convenient that other places. Orrin and Chris are not operating a scam, BUT EVEN IF THEY WERE, too many people are benefiting from it to be negative.
You all want to hear of a scam? The higher educational system in America today. Putting my daughter in college for 4 years: $78,000. Watching my son fail 3 times: $15,000. But my husband is still in education, my whole family either taught elementary, high school or college. Will I stop my daughter from the scam of college, to be a high school English teacher? NO, it’s her dream, and she’ll do it well. And she’ll drink the juice and energy drink the whole time, as her knees click when she doesn’t drink the juice. There’s some proof for you.
@Mackwiz: MonaVie is getting medically approved and the PULSE is already approved by the FDA. Mmun is following suit. Pay close attention in the months to come! My cholesterol has lowered on Pulse, I won’t have to take medication. Of course, the Rx may be a BIT cheaper, but look at the side effects. Now the side effects of a synergistically blended variety of juices: health. What a concept.
Night all, you’re missing a great opportunity.

Chrissy, Good Luck to you. I guess Orrin is your new Messiah and God bless you for that. Go in the direction of “Your” lord and keep buying those tapes books and going to those seminars and conventions.

BTW, I had only met Orrin in person a couple of times but heard him speak COUNTLESS times. Since you find this 10.5 years as so wonderful, you would not even know if when you met Orrin, his hand was pulling cash from yoru pocket. Don Storms is also a very powerful personality. Seemed loving, religious, caring and he turned out to be a pyramid hustler as his son is in MonaVie. He even hussled millions out of those he trusted with a Ponzi scheme and had to take millions away from a college library that were proceeds from that scam.
Good Luck to you and keep thinking it is FDA approved. That is EXACTLY how brainwashed you are Chrissy. They say it, so it MUST be true.
It is so funny reading your posts. It is just as though I was at a Quixtar Meeting, or Melaluca meeting or Excel Meeting. The rhetoric is cross-system and fits all of the MLM scam platforms. You can still get out. One day you will and will shake your head because you believed their “spiel” for so long.

Chrissy:

I cross-posted this to my blog.

Chrissy said: “You all want to hear of a scam? The higher educational system in America today. Putting my daughter in college for 4 years: $78,000. Watching my son fail 3 times: $15,000.”

Chrissy – where are you getting this information that college is a scam? It couldn’t be from your TEAM Leaders, could it???

Well, Orrin himself proudly states in the very first paragraph of one of his many websites:

Orrin has a Bachelor of Science Degree in Manufacturing Systems Engineering from GMI and Business Administration training from the University of Michigan.

First thing out of the Supreme Leader website is a line touting his educational credentials. Why is that?

Okay, if it’s not Orrin talking smack about college, how about his rascal brother-in-arms, Chris Brady? Well, in the very first paragraph on his website, Chris says:

Education: Bachelor of Science in Mechanical Engineering, Kettering University (formerly GMI Engineering & Management Institute)
Master of Science in Manufacturing Engineering, Carnegie Mellon University, General Motors Fellowship, Master Thesis at Toyohashi University, Toyohashi, Japan.

That’s a lot of education and fellowships that Chris has entered. If it’s not Chris nor Orrin, who is tell you that education is bad? If it is indeed Orrin saying all of this, why do they emphasize their own education credentials on their websites???

Here’s the truth. TEAM wants you to pay for its own for-profit “educational” system. I put educational in quotes because the TEAM System is not accredited by any third-party national or regional organization.

TEAM would like you to think that it’s providing you a better education than in a college, but is it? If you leave TEAM, do you get a diploma that you can show at your next interview? No, your prospective employer will laugh at you for saying TEAM is valid education. You can’t even leave TEAM without members calling you a loser for quitting! So, you’re doubly screwed!

What is the cost of a TEAM Education? As MLM Punisher pointed out, it was $500 every month for him. If you were a couple building this business together, that figure will be more? Four years of TEAM is $24,000. Okay, that might be one year at a good college, but what do you get out of it? After four years, are you a Diamond, or are you perpetually just getting started?”

Finally, Orrin’s children are getting up there in years. Is his oldest in high school by now — ex-TEAM members please confirm. Are Orrin and Laurie planning to send their children to college? If they are, why? If college is such a dump, why are the children of the Supreme Leader going?

http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2011/05/10/the-costs-of-a-team-education/

As for Pulse, I have a few articles on that.
- http://www.juicescam.com/monavie-pulse-is-not-very-effective-for-lowering-cholesterol/
- http://www.juicescam.com/monavie-pulse-vs-benecol-smart-chews-in-lowering-cholesterol/
- http://www.juicescam.com/monavie-pulse-vs-cholestoff-in-lowering-cholesterol/

I know. I am reading Chrissy’s posts and it saddens me. People think that there is a quick fix to their financial/educational woes and their simply isn’t. That is what the king pins from MonaVie and TEAM count on is people like Chrissy. I just found out that someone who has been doing MV has just lost her house and business due to MV but is not giving up. She has been involved for over 3 years and is still not cluing in that she will NEVER be a millionaire, and will likely die penniless. But no one can tell her she will fail because that would make us losers and her a quitter.It really does break my heart.

Chrissy, I wish that you would really sit down and look at what you are getting involved with a cool and logical head, otherwise you could ruin the lives of your entire family. Could you live with that?

Read some of the information on this site regarding TEAM and the MonaVie. Read Amthrax’s blog. They will lead you to independant research that has been done on the type of business TEAM and MV are operating as well as the “products” you are selling. You owe yourself and your family this.

I was involved with MV for 1.5 years and I but I don’t communicate with ANY of those people that are involved in MV. I do have a lot of other friends who stuck by me through my MV phase but I think if I would have staying in longer, I would have lost them too. They are not interested in you when you leave (for this I am quite happy, mind you) because you aren’t helping create income for them any longer.

The “facts” that you are fed about MV (I am reading what you write and you don’t appear to question any of them…why not? you are questioning us?) are also just marketing ploys that are designed to make people believe that the product is superior, when it quite simply is just fruit juice.

If you are having are finally dealing with trauma in your childhood, you are vulnerable right now and my heart does go out to you. Please, talk to your counsellor about TEAM and get his/her input. I understand that you are trying to make sense of your life right now and I applaud your efforts. I also understand that you are seeking spirituality in your life, which is a great thing, but there are much healthier and cheaper ways to achieve this. Spirituality and connecting to others should not cost you a dime. Think about it.

You also sound as if you are somewhat bothered by their “right wing” views and I assure you that in TEAM, this only gets worse. They encourage women to stay home as we are not born leaders. We should pretty much be seen and not heard. Perhaps you believe in this doctrine but it doesn’t sound like it.

Talk to your parents, talk to your counsellor, do some further research, I know that you will find your way. If not, good luck and all I can do is hope you don’t hurt too many other people financially/emotionally on your TEAM journey.

Thanks Mackwiz…I re-read my post and there are a few extra words that were unintended, I think I cut and pasted a little too much! Anyways, I hope everyone (particularly Chrissy) gets the gist of it!

Erika,
While I appreciate the humor in the whole “holier than thou” routine you are running, please get down to some evidence that supports your opinion and please tell us why we should go TEAM when the same advice is all over the place for free.

I understand that someone walking in here for the first time may conclude we have “bitter spirit an mean words” but what you don’t understand is that we deal with drive-by-distributors who make the same claims and then disappear after we refute them almost every week.

Sometimes it is appropriate to be angry. Were the people persecuting Bernie Madoff having “bitter spirits and mean words”?

As far as hiding behind the internet goes, you do know that you are breaking the terms of your distributor contract by not posting your distributor ID here, right?

-also-

Chrissy, I’m still waiting on your FDA approval evidence. Specifically, proof for this statement, “MonaVie is getting medically approved and the PULSE is already approved by the FDA”.

Erika, it is sad that you rely on the “system” to make all good. If you are having issues and problems in your life, why rely on businessmen who seek only to take money from you? Why look to untrained “MLM hoppers” who look right, walk right and say the right thing that you want to hear? You need professional help and I suggest you seek that sooner rather than later, as most people on this thing would agree. But if you “need” that system, I have hundreds of Quixtar tapes I can sell you that all say the same thing as your MonaVie system do. I will sell them to you at a very discounted price.

Chrissy..you are absolutely right. I humiliated myself by becoming involved with MonaVie and I take responsibilty for that, I have never said otherwise. That said, I did a crazy thing called TRUST the people getting me involved while ignoring my instincts. That lead to the humiliation, hence my “handle”. You will also experience this humiliation but you don’t see that right now. Best of luck. You will need it.

How has the juice benefited you? Please list the exact benefits over say Welch’s or Ocean Spray.

Please do not use the: “MonaVie Distributor: Your Job is a Pyramid Too!” line. It makes you look ignorant of what a pyramid scheme is.

Marie, clearly you didn’t do your homework first.

I’ve been in a 5 month relationship. Last night ends that relationship because I stated I was not believer of the TEAM business. Nor it’s alinement with biblical principles as they say.
He told me this was a deal breaker for our love and that our relationship was done.

I thank God for keeping watch over me…

There’s a good discussion going on my website pertaining to Orrin Woodward and his past anonymous blogging exploits. Orrin even alluded to these claims in his latest blog post. Check it out here:

http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2011/08/16/orrin-qrush-the-many-blogs-of-orrin-woodward-part-one/

and

http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2011/08/18/orrin-woodwards-five-principles-for-team-life/

LMAO! Ok, that’s some funny shit, Scammed.