MonaVie Distributor: Your Job is a Pyramid Too!

How many people in MonaVie made as much as Bill Gates did? It looks like none. Also Bill Gates didn’t make his fortune via MLM.

Guest,

I’d like to see a link to that show. I’m thinking that Bill Gates was joking. After all the David Letterman is about comedy not business ideas. Obviously no Amway seller (even the highest earner) makes anywhere close to what Bill Gates does.

It’s also worth noting that Bill Gates’ income is very irregular. I think his salary, if he even still receives one from Microsoft is quite small. His fortune comes from sale of Microsoft stock. So some years he may decide to cash in some shares for few hundred million dollars and other years he may decide to make no money. Perhaps Bill Gates was in a year where he chose to make no money and compared that to Amway.

funny, as I read these rediculous statements I realize there’s a only a few losers…I mean supporters of this lost cause website. what a complete waste of your time there monavie scam (thats original).

So to point out how dumb your above comments you started (when you created this rediculous website). Screw the Harvard education! level playing field for all to have the same opportunity as that Harvard grad idiot! How great is that? I can be a janitor (and there are) in MoanVie and make more than any Harvard grad! Funny when I saw one of the speakers giving a presentation showing his weekly bonus from MoanVie at around 17K per week, I don’t think he mentioned he was a hravard grad….I think he was a FedEx Manager. So ignoramous, what briliant words to you have to say to this 39th link you built on your stupid website?

It’s funny how vote42morrow negates the value of education. Maybe if he attended class more often he wouldn’t have misspelled MonaVie (twice).

I don’t grade on spelling, but if you can’t spell the name of your own product, you may want to reconsider promoting it. That is good for a laugh. Please cite your references that back up your claim of “growth.” A tumor grows, as well. That doesn’t make it good.

Have any of you guys read Robert Kiyosaki’s Rich Dad Poor Dad? It’s quite an eye opener. The fact is that times are changing. The whole “go to school and get a good education so you can get a good job” is out the window in these times. I’m not saying I’m against education. Education is absolutely paramount in the world. Any chance to improve yourself is always a good thing. Though you must realize that the richest people in the world never finished their paths in education, if they even started one. There are other forms of education besides school out there.
Both Robert Kiyosaki and Donald Trump are pro-MLM. Not so sure about Bill Gates…never heard that one before.

vote42morrow,

If MonaVie distributors could compete on a “level playing field” things might be different. According to some business definitions;

LEVEL PLAYING FIELD:

“Economic and legal environment in which all competitors, irrespective of their size or financial strength, follow the same rules and get equal opportunity to compete”.

“A situation which offers no advantage to any particular side or group or person”.

“A fair situation”.

MonaVie distributors do not compete on a level playing field. They don’t compete against one another or against any other company for that matter. They prey upon one another. Without the promise of making money by recruiting other “distributors”, the products would not sell, at least not at the price charged by MonaVie. The false income promise drives the sales of the products.

After reading your post I can understand why you have such a loathing for education (to hard huh?). I would say though, if you had any knowledge of the English language or a grasp of basic grammar it would be easier to take you seriously. Oh and FYI “ignoramous” is spelled ignoramus. You might want to write that down so they can get it right on your name tag.

Want Freedom,

There’s very little opinion on this site that isn’t backed up by reputable sources or straight-forward logic. Don’t make it seem like one group’s opinions vs. another group’s opinions because only one side is providing evidence for the logic.

You confuse Network Marketing and Multi-Level Network Marketing here. Network Marketing is I refer you to CollegeAdvantage and I get essentially a commission. MonaVie’s multi-level network is mathematically unsustainable because you always have to recruit a lot of people to make your investment back. It turns out that few people are interested in selling $35 juice – especially when they come to this site and others and see that it’s nutritionally deficient (almost no vitamins other than C, almost no minerals – just iron, and almost no fiber).

The fact that MonaVie is based on a health drink is not due to tapping into a niche market of health and wellness. It’s because the product has no objective benefit. If it was a new way to keep food fresh (Tupperware) or makeup (Mary Kay) you’d be able to clearly see the benefit in the demonstration of the product. MonaVie can’t demonstrate this product so they try to confuse you into thinking MonaVie is something that it simply isn’t. Distributors will talk about acai when no one knows how much acai is actually in MonaVie. They’ll talk about the quality of protein in acai – when MonaVie itself has no protein (according to the label). They’ll talk about the beneficial fats in acai when, again, there’s only half a gram on the label. I explained many of the ways that distributors do this on the home page (http://www.juicescam.com/) – but there’s more scattered throughout the site. Again, this isn’t opinion. Even MonaVie distributors realize this about MonaVie.

MonaVie’s start up costs are not ridiculously if you talk to distributors. They’ll say that to be successful, you have to go to events and buy tools. This can run thousands a year plus your own cost of juice (which you must take to remain an active distributor). More than one person here has said that they spent $4,000 in the first year. Buying juice for a family of four is $5,000 a year right there.

I have been living the MonaVie Nightmare. I begged my husband not to join. He did. He is so crazy about it he spent our mortgage payment and grocery money on it. He has made 35$ after spending 1800. I had a lightbulb moment this evening and am leaving him. I have just had enough. I wonder if he can make enough at MonaVie to pay for a lawyer.

he is 1800 in 5months. I told him its me or monavie. He actually stuggled to make a decision. I suppose I am chopped liver. The one good thing about MonaVie is its made me realize that my marriage is more about money then love apparently. Good thing I wont have to wash his clothes anymore.

I am a University of Chicago Graduate School of Business 1998 graduate and a happy MonaVie distributor.

I have been trained to be a corporate manager – spent 17 years in corporate world. Later spent 3 years building a franchise business on my own. Now I got involved fulltime with building my business with MonaVie.

Take it from me:
Corporations are pyramides – and the rules governing the MLM industry are superior to those governing traditional business. I hope I can make it in this industry as I do not want ever to go back to the corporate world.
There was a time when I worked for a pharma company I could not see myself doing anything else in my life – I was successful, making a lot of money, but I was not FREE. Later came downsizing, restructuring which left me in the akward and unusual situation. I decided to start my own business as I needed more time and flexibility helping my doughter realize her dream of becoming a professional tennis player. When I discovered MV I was sceptical, doubtful like most of people usually are, but I did my research and quickly understood that this is probably the greatest opportunity of my life.

And for many people out there – network companies are for real. Creating valuable international consumer networks which provide true economic value is more fun than working for someone else.

The fact people like Brig Hart are making so much money is amazing. He makes almost a million dollars a month in this company (which is the most of any network company) and it is proof that there are ways to create a true economic value in these virtual consumer networks. We do not see any walls, bricks, branches etc. however the people buy the products and this provides the real economic value.

It is no mistake that such savvy investors like Warren Buffett, Donald Trump are big fans of the industry – with both owning MLM companies.

MLM is not an easy business though. It requires hard work, and leadership qualities and most of the people will not succeed in it. However if you have an entrepreneurial spirit, have big dreams, and the desire to succeed – MLM is the best way to get started in your own business. Read Robert Kiyosaki’s books to understand that building a MLM network is as serious as building any network (McDonalds, banks, gas stations), and is one of the ways to create independence, financial freedom for far more people that work together, support each other, than in traditional corporate business.

If you choose right you will have a great opportunity to surround yourself with so many wonderful people who work with you, want you to succeed, and share your dreams.

What I liked about MV was that I saw was simply a potential to make a lot of money – when I looked at the last year’s income disclosure, MV was about the same size as my previous employer – $ 800 mil US pharma company – However, there were 10 times as many distributors making serious money in MV compared to the entire staff Valeant Pharma.

Tom you state ““I am a University of Chicago Graduate School of Business 1998 graduate and a happy MonaVie distributor. I have been trained to be a corporate manager – spent 17 years in corporate world…Take it from me: Corporations are pyramides – and the rules governing the MLM industry are superior to those governing traditional business. I hope I can make it in this industry as I do not want ever to go back to the corporate world…”

A pyramid scheme is a non-sustainable business model that involves the exchange of money primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme rather than from profits generated from the sales of goods or services to those outside the scheme.

Such schemes are a form of fraud – they are unable to deliver on their promises of an income opportunity taking into consideration it’s predetermined that nearly all participants who enter such schemes (except the very few at the top who got in first) will never be able to recoup their investment and will therefore lose.

Pyramid schemes as defined by the FTC, various governing bodies/laws and pretty much ALL countries, are ILLEGAL. No other business model, no other traditional business, corporation or the like, are considered fraudulent and they are NOT pyramid schemes by any stretch of the definition.

Seems to me that someone wasted their money in sending you to university if you’re still unable to accurately identify a pyramid scheme. Either that or you’re downright DISHONEST in deliberately misinforming consumers about what is in fact a pyramid scheme.

It’s quite obvious that the sales force of Monavie are not sellers of fruit juice – my own friend and all the distributors I’ve come into contact with have confirmed the difficulty in selling overpriced fruit juice and consume what they buy. Monavie distributors are selling the opportunity, the dream of becoming rich and their efforts are focused on recruitment entirely – and it is this which is referred to as pyramiding and what makes the product just the means of laundering the investments into the pyramid scheme.

You further state “There was a time when I worked for a pharma company I could not see myself doing anything else in my life – I was successful, making a lot of money, but I was not FREE.”

Ironic that you should be looking to Monavie for freedom considering you are building a business (I still gag at using that word when it comes to the activities of Monavie distributors) based entirely on the concept of DUPLICATION with no freedom to operate your business how you so desire and express yourself as an individual – you are spoon fed the steps to “success” every step of the way.

Secondly, what is freedom in a business that you NEVER truly own – Monavie dictate the terms of your distributorship, can end your distributorship at their discretion and thus your business also?!

And how does a person separate themselves from a business that requires them to involve their family, friends, neighbours, acquaintances and every moment is a potential opportunity to promote the business?

Tom further says “And for many people out there – network companies are for real. Creating valuable international consumer networks which provide true economic value is more fun than working for someone else.”

Says who? Without going into the industry itself and focusing only on Monavie, during the period of the 2009 IDS a group of only 377 (0.053% of the entire sales force) received nearly 40% of the total commissions paid and averaged greater than $7000.00 per week. The remaining 91,299 distributors (12.8%) who were entitled to a commission averaged less than $50.00 per week and the remaining 620,431 distributors earned ZERO in the first instance.

With the loss rates amongst greater than 99% of its sales force, it sounds like this company is an absolute economic disaster for the unsuspecting consumer/distributor (I refuse to differentiate the two considering Monavie distributors seem to be the only consumers and customer base).

Furthermore, I would hardly consider an industry whereby such an unfair compensation plan where the system can enable the majority of participants to lose money to be superior to traditional employment – where at the very least a person must be paid a minimum wage.

Tom further states “The fact people like Brig Hart are making so much money is amazing”

The fact that Brig Hart is one of the 377 who received nearly 40% of the commissions isn’t amazing – there is nothing amazing about the way in which pyramids enrich only those at the top. It’s GROSSLY unfair and amazing that fraud on such a grand scale is able to escape the attention of consumers and government bodies.

Tom say “It is no mistake that such savvy investors like Warren Buffett, Donald Trump are big fans of the industry – with both owning MLM companies.”

That’s right – they wouldn’t be STUPID enough to work for an MLM company like Monavie where the absolute majority of the sales force is losing money and the likelihood of success is virtually zero.

Tom says “MLM is the best way to get started in your own business.”

MLM is by far the worst industry to consider building a business in – it’s known for it’s deceptive practices, misrepresentations used to lure people in and corruption. The vast majority of people in the industry lose and considering it is YOU the bears the financial burden, you stand to lose everything that you put in – financially and otherwise.

Tom states “If you choose right you will have a great opportunity to surround yourself with so many wonderful people who work with you, want you to succeed, and share your dreams.”

Riiiiiiiiiiiight……these people want you to succeed out of the goodness of their heart and not because they want to “leverage” off your efforts!! Surely you can’t be so naïve.

Finally, Tom states “What I liked about MV was that I saw was simply a potential to make a lot of money – when I looked at the last year’s income disclosure, MV was about the same size as my previous employer – $ 800 mil US pharma company – However, there were 10 times as many distributors making serious money in MV compared to the entire staff Valeant Pharma.”

I’m certain you’re yet another distributor without a single retail customer and are not making any regular retail sales to anyone outside the scheme – so perhaps you should consider that with the absolute majority of consumers of Monavie being the distributors, the majority of Monavie’s profits are therefore being derived from the investment and purchases of its own sales force.

And I’m certain that 99.64% of the staff and at pharma aren’t losing money by working for the company.

And this is the opportunity you are hoping to sign your family and friends up for?

People are going to assume that a supposedly educated person like you knows what they’re doing and that sir, makes you a LIABILITY.

I’ve dealth with Tom on other MonaVie blogs. He uses the exact same phrases and verbage in each.

Tom is Tom Turner, a vocal MonaVie distributor from the Chicago area. He may be the same as Jim Turner, who has posted on Juice Scam previously.

If you want to see how honest he is, just check his employment and schooling claims against this: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/tom-turner/b/564/813

Noted Monavie Scam. Previous comment withdrawn.

That I agree with Mike. I found the math confusing there too (it’s only been 12 years since 1998 and now he’s talking about 20 years of experience). From what I can tell he went back to business school after some years in the corporate world.

My Goodness – you guys are so pathetic, and useless. I wish you luck in your careers and perfect jobs. I hope you will see some light at the end of the tunnels for you as you seem to be in huge need for some kind of professional help.

It is a waste of time to talk to you as you as your intentions are clear – go to hell with MV and go to hell with network marketing. You guys are amazingly pathetic in your simplistic way of thinking, arguing, bringing up the issues which are the same ready-to-meals warmed up over the years.

Obviously, you are not the kind of people who would be able to succees in network marketing as you have no clue what it takes to be the leaders that others follow. Obviously, you do not like people, and helping others to succeed is just not your thing.

Network marketing does not promise anybody anything. Like in any business, if you want to succeed you have to put in time, effort, and learn new skills. It is ethical way to deliver good quality products to the end-users.
Relationship distribution or network marketing is here to stay – whether you like it or not. For vast majority, it is simply a way to buy products – they are also included in your scewed analysis as people that go broke – this is not true. They are simply included in the charts as people who buy the products and recommend them to some of their relatives and friends. They have no intention to make big money in this industry – they simply enjoy their products, get some rebates, and buy them as they are not available through “regular” distribution channels.

However, people who follow the system, are disciplined, patient, hard-working have the chance that no corporate job can offer – and this is the fact. Vogel, Food tech, MonaVie Scam, Mlke, Anonymous Aussie, are just the guys who live in the world of glass ceilings. They make certain amount of money, and they will never make more money than their bosses. They all enjoy working for someone else, they value their “security” and benefits. I know I was there… Wake up guys. This will not last.

Network marketing created more millionaires in US than any other industry in the last 20 years. Prove me wrong if you can!!! Not everybody will succeed, this is obvious – however – as a University of Chicago grad I am one of the top 1% of the people in the world (based on the acceptance rates and GMAT scores) – I will succeed. Do not worry about me. There is no word FAILURE in my dictionary. Most likely you would not get to such fine school that I had a privilege to attend, so do not even try to comprehend whether or not I made a mistake and made the wrong decision attending one of the finest business schools in the world. This was the great experience and I would recommend it to anybody. The most important thing I learned was to trust my judgement and not to worry when other people try to derail you from your chosen path. This is one of the most important traits you need to have if you decide to try network marketing.

Your FDA declared your genetically modified foods as equivalent to normal food – you should sue them – it seems that your brains are already screwed up – without waiting until 3rd generation.

For all other normal people – network marketing could be as good as any other way to gain financial independance if you put in effort, time and perseverance and surround yourself with people who will not derail you.

Beware of piramid schemes, MonaVie is definitely not the one, and do not worry about people like the guys above, who do not know what they are talking about but still talk, thinking they are the smartest on this planet. Poor their families who have to put up with such morons.

Guys like them only motivate me even more to do what I do!!!

The most interesting thing is that Tom doesn’t realize is that to a large degree being a blogger is a network marketer. It’s odd that he’d say that I’d be against that. He doesn’t realize that he’s not actually a network marketer, he’s a multi-level network marketer. It’s a huge distinction and multi-level network marketers always seem to ignore it. If he was a network marketer he’d be selling the juice to people and that would be the end of it. He would not be asking them to sign up to sell juice. When that’s part of the compensation plan it becomes an unsustainable pyramid… there comes a point where there are no people interested in becoming juice salesman and the people at the bottom are stuck with auto-shipments and no income. Tom, don’t try to convince people that it’s a sustainable business model – it’s not.

Tom’s response above is basically pulling a page out of the defensive MLM handbook:

“Vogel, Food tech, MonaVie Scam, Mlke, Anonymous Aussie, are just the guys who live in the world of glass ceilings. They make certain amount of money, and they will never make more money than their bosses. They all enjoy working for someone else, they value their “security” and benefits. I know I was there… Wake up guys. This will not last.”

Tom doesn’t realize that I’ve been there too. It’s why I started my other well-known blog, Lazy Man and Money. As a software engineer in 2006, I realized that it’s possible for people in other countries with lower costs of living to do my job for less money than I can. I needed a back-up plan and an income stream that could get through the hard times. I realized that I know quite a bit about personal finance and I would write on that. I provide value for my readers or I don’t make money. MonaVie Distributors provide no value… they are a commodity. Anyone can be a distributor. Knowledge of the product, the only real value they could provide is lacking. It’s a shame that I feel compelled to come in and do their job right for them.

Tom said

“Network marketing created more millionaires in US than any other industry in the last 20 years. Prove me wrong if you can!!!”

Somewhere in the world, there is a pink penguin. Prove me wrong if you can! I hope that example shows you that the burden of proof is on the person making the unsubstantiated statement. It’s not up to us to prove him wrong, it’s up to him to show the facts behind his statement. If I say there is a pink penguin somewhere in the world, you’d be correct in asking me to prove evidence of it. Same deal here.

Tom, the fact that you went to a great school is what is the most confusing part of this. It makes no sense that you’d join a business where you add no value. If I buy the juice from you or from someone that didn’t pass second grade, it’s still the same juice. It’s a waste of a degree. Why would you to the University of Chicago and then sell juice? You don’t have to go to a top University to “learn to trust your judgment and not to worry when other people try to derail you from your chosen path.” Let’s remember that the people of Jonestown trusted their judgment and didn’t worry when other people derailed them from their chosen path. I guess they didn’t teach much logic at UofC… or maybe you were absent that day.

The other thing that the University of Chicago should have taught you is to not build you business on a house of cards. That is to say, 100% of your business depends on MonaVie staying in business. I know that can be said about a number of businesses. If you own a Subway franchise it depends on it staying in business. However, we know that Dallin Larsen juice businesses can die at any time. See: Royal Tongan Limu. MonaVie can clearly be put out of business for the same reason as RTL (see the rest of the site for evidence). Then your business would complete disappear overnight through no action of your own. Where your diversification and back-up plan?

Tom, if you would get down off of your high horse for a moment, I’d like to ask you a simple question.

The science has conclusively proven that MonaVie has lower antioxidant bioavailability than Pomegranate juice, black cherry juice, concord grape juice, cranberry juice, apples, plums, cherries, peanut butter, blueberries, and many, many other foods.

It is one of the few fruit juices in the U.S. that still uses the preservatives sodium benzoate, and potassium sorbate.

4 oz. is equal to only 2/3 of a daily fruit serving (USDA)

It cannot and does not help, in any way, any disease or affliction.

It is nothing more than fruit punch in a shiney bottle, that costs around $5.00 per person per day.

My question is, exactly what reasoning would a sane person use to buy this product from you?

Some of you guys are confused about pyramide schemes.

I want to remind you that they are illegal, even in Australia. The binary compensation scheme, used for example by MV, allows people who join later to pass those who joined earlier if they are more productive. This was exactly the case with Steve and Gina Merritt who joined in almost a year lafter MonaVie started only to stay # 2 couple for the long time. It all depends on the level of involvement and daily discipline that network marketers are willing to do and commit themselves to.

Most network companies are not involved in illegal activities as some of you suggest. MV represents one of the brightest stars in this industry. Dallin Larsen, MV’s CEO received Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year award last November – somehow it does not play well with all the BS you are selling to people who are not aware of your bias. He actually did it twice, first in Utah, and later nationally.

http://www.ey.com/US/en/Newsroom/News-releases/Dallin-Larsen-EOY-2009-Emerging-category

Somehow, Ernst & Young does their own research too.

What about MORE project – why don’t you focus on that – helping children from the streets of Favelas find their purpose in lives – MV’s very important philantropic mission. MV wants to be the best company for the world, not in the world. You become rich not by receiving but by giving. I personally know Brig, Dallin, and believe their story – they are great industry leaders but by far they are great people. They can motivate people to act – MLM industry can provide great way for people to find entrepreneurial spirit in themselves if they let it. Talking about pyramide schemes just show how incompetent some of you critics are!

Some of you could benefit from reading Robert Kiyosaki’s books – staying for more than 5 years on NYT bestsellers’ list, as well as listed on the best-sellers lists of WSJ and USA Today.

I would recommend for the beginners:
The business of the 21st Century

http://www.jimrohn.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2289

As far as science is concerned – MV received another patent – a lot of companies are using MV’s own research and ORAC scores – this time the patent will help protecting anti-oxidant properties in the MV products.

A lot of independent MV distributors are unaware of the industry standards set by pharmaceutical companies. Double standards, I must say. I’ve been there and know how easy it is for pharma companies manipulate with research data. Especially when FDA also uses double standards in regards to genetically modified foodstuffs.

This unawareness of many independent distributors working with MV products is because there are so many of them without prior MLM industry experience.

This is because of MV phenomenon – so many people who never thought would be involved with this company actually joined in because they like the product so much.

I graduated from University of Chicago MBA program and I admitted I am fascinated with Network Marketing industry – I would have not joined in if it was not for MV’s wonderful product.

Those of you who speak about flushing down degree down the toilet are just suckers of the different type. You do not have any idea what you are talking about. So just leave it – your way of thinking is just one-dimensional, and you will not be able what I am talking about when I said that principle guiding MLM industry are superior to those from traditional business. I hope before you answer with your typical BS – do real research yourself – if you actually can on the industry, read one book or two and then come back and let us talk!!!

Tom, ironic you should be suggesting anyone is “confused” or “incompetent” when it comes to the issue of pyramid schemes taking into consideration you can’t even spell the word!!!! Hint: it’s not pyramide – it’s spelt P-Y-R-A-M-I-D.

Furthermore, you haven’t even figured out that the binary compensation plan is nothing new – it is just another variation of the many types of pyramid structures (there is also unilevel, breakaway, matrix, the Australian 2-up).

Just because you say it isn’t a pyramid scheme (you obviously have a vested interest in trying to convince people of this), doesn’t mean it isn’t.

I think I provided a pretty good definition of what an illegal pyramid scheme in my previous post so I’m not going to repeat myself. However, I do refer you to the FTC who provide some very useful tips in helping consumers identify an illegal pyramid scheme (www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/invest/inv08.shtm or http://www.ftc.gov/speeches/other/dvimf16.shtm).

Should you take your own advice and do a bit of research on pyramid schemes, perhaps then you’ll be able to respond to my challenge on the notion that

1) The primary focus within Monavie is recruitment (a huge red flag and as stated by the FTC – “a time tested tip-off to a pyramid scheme”)
2) The difficulty in selling an over-priced fruit juice and the lack of retail sales by distributors to anyone outside the scheme (another red flag)
3) The rewards which are far more lucrative for recruiting a huge downline than from actual sales (you will note that out of the 9 ways to earn an income within Monavie, only 2 relate to retail sales and that the most lucrative way to earn is to build a huge downline)
4) The lack of monitoring to ensure distributors are complying with the 70% rule and rules regarding paying bonuses on sales to “end users” particularly given case law suggests that the mere existence of policies without evidence of enforcement renders the policies irrelevant and self consumption by a distributor doesn’t necessarily satisfy the requirement that sales are being made to an “ultimate user” (Webster vs Omnitrition International)
5) The compensation plan which is clearly only enriching a very few at the top such as is the case with pyramid schemes

and MORE red flags which I could list which confirm the underlying business of Monavie is pyramiding, not selling juice.

You say you know the story of Dallin Larsen – so I suppose you also know that he made illegal and fraudulent medical claims about the last juice he was promoting (web.archive.org/web/20020205212919/63.167.229.232/deistream/conf020128.wma) and it was claims such as these which prompted the FDA to shut the company down, destroy the remaining inventory and issue a $2million fine?

You say you know the story of Brig Hart – so I suppose you also know Brig Hart’s track record at Amway where he actively engaged in profiting in the millions of dollars rorted from its own sales force as a result of the secret tools business, where the tools business generated more profits from Amway’s own sales force than from the sale of Amway products and then ironically sued Amway for robbing him out of his share of the loot?

You tout a university education in your attempt to appear more credible but sadly, you are doing nothing more than parroting the bullsh*t that Monavie have spoon fed you because you have a vested interest in believing it and you have a vested interest in ignoring the facts concerning both the product and opportunity.

The FACT is that you’re luring your family and friends into a venture whereby the product has been proven to be nutritionally void (Dr Schauss himself confirmed the ORAC score of Monavie is only a pitiful 22.81 and low in key antioxidants) and into a venture whereby greater than 99% of all people are LOSING money (as confirmed by Monavie’s own Income Disclosure Statement) for your own financial gain.

You fail to see that you are being manipulated into justifying the above behaviour by convincing yourself that you are “helping people”.

You’re not just a liability to your family and friends, you’re also DELUDED.

What the??!!

You’re trying to refer me to Monavie literature in order to educate myself – and at the same time ignore information provided by the FTC and other consumer advocates who seek to protect consumers from pyramid and product-based pyramid fraud??!!

Hey genius – why don’t you answer me this:

1. Are you aware that Monavie purport to be a “direct selling” company?
2. How many retail customers do you have (as in people not associated with the scheme) – or are you your only customer and thus consume everything that you buy
3. How many retail sales did you make this month and do you have receipts to prove such sales?
4. What are your weekly/monthly sales targets?
5. Does your monthly shipment cover enough product to supply to your customers (and does your sponsor ask you to prove such sales so as to ensure you are eligible to receive bonuses as well as complying with the 70% rule?)
6. Would your business survive based on commissions earned from the sales of product alone and without the need to recruit a downline?
7. If you have no retail customers and consuming everything that you buy – would you consider yourself a seller of the opportunity rather than of fruit juice?

There’s a very distinct difference between direct selling and pyramiding yet none of Monavie’s literature provides any information concerning what precisely is an illegal pyramid scheme and why Monavie are not (sorry, Randy’s rants about Monavie being within the boundaries of legal aren’t satisfactory taking into consideration the lack of monitoring to ensure distributors are complying with the anti-pyramiding rules).

You boast a university degree and multiple languages but unfortunately you continue to remain elusive about answering a single question concerning the allegations I have made about the pyramiding activities of distributors such as yourself – but perhaps you’ll answer the questions above so that some light can be shed on the matter.

Hey administrator – why are you partially deleting my comments? Just because MBA graduate from the great business school ruins your anti-everything stance so this is your tactic – delete comments that are hurting – leave the ones you want to attack. BRAVO. At least you now have something to do, you are paid for something at least.

I admit it was waste of time to write on this forum as you manipulate everything: data, people, and someone’s else statements.

[Editor's Note: Tom, I've only deleted about 80 words of your content. All of them were directly related to Aussie's life which has no impact on MonaVie or discussion of MonaVie.

This blog is my home. I invite people in for a civil discussion. This should not be taken as an invitation to insult me or my friends. I'm also not going to let people talk about random unrelated topics like soccer (as you did) to drown out the good discussion. If you want an unmoderated discussion forum, plenty of those exist. They just aren't worth visiting because of all the spam.]

Even if someone pays $5000 dollars a year to have an additional business opportunity that can provide you some additional income – and drink most of the stuff they buy, and have no additional major expenses like office rent, payroll etc. This is very little money for the opportunity one gets.

[Editor's Note: The opportunity is minimal when you look at the Income Disclosure Statement. The top 97% average less than $9000 and when you start adding tools, travel, conference fees, etc. they are essentially spending their time to earn almost nothing. And that's if you are in that 97% percentile. If you are 30%, 60%, or 90% you've worked very hard to lose money... some opportunity]

I drink lots of juice and pay with the bonuses I receive.

It is not your business Aussie to ask questions that have no relevance to you, after you discredit someone’s education, integrity, intelligence to get on the same playing field. Talk in the mirror. There is someone there waiting for you to talk to.

MonaVie Scam – you seem to write here a lot – but you do not even know the basics about MonaVie business.

Nobody in MV is required to be on Auto-ship, you can cancel your distributorship or seize being a preferred customer at any time. If you get involved in the MV business it is recommended that you buy products on the regular basis as you are more credible to recommend product you know and enjoy. When distributors get on auto-ship they do it for convenience. If distributors are on auto-ship or order two cases of products every 4-weeks (enough for consumption for two people) they will get full advantage of the great compensation plan that MV is providing when they choose to build their business. There is no obligation however to be neither on auto-ship nor to order regularly.

[Editor's Note: So you are saying that I can still earn checks from MonaVie and not do auto-ship? That doesn't sound like what I've read. If you are saying that someone can be a customer of MonaVie, we'll that's fine - I can be a customer of numerous places quite easily. If you are saying that MonaVie will still consider me an active distributor and send me checks without auto-ship then that's really interesting. From their Income Disclosure Statement, this doesn't seem true.]

“It’s unfortunate that Tom doesn’t acknowledge that MonaVie is a product-based pyramid scheme. – MonaVie Scam”

How did you come to that conclusion? What I wrote above provides enough of evidence this statement above is a BS. Actually, if this is your opinion that is ok, you have right to have one, but do not write as if this were a 100% sure thing, write it as your opinion. The fact that most of your juice-scam guys agree with you does not prove your hipotesis. You are misleading people.

[Editor's Note: It's really not that hard to figure out what a pyramid scheme is. If the "business" is about recruiting substantially more people into the "business" in hopes of making money it's a pyramid. It can't be sustained, because there's not always people available to join. There aren't infinite people on the planet and when that resource ends, the 97% who are paying $5000 a year for juice with no one to recruit are getting hurt.]

Duplication of efforts, so called replication is the key activity in any MLM. People who want to be successful in MLMs know that and fully accept it.

In MLMs you truly recruit only leaders/builders [Editor's Note: What happens when there are no leaders/builders left to recruit? Who do the leaders and builders recruit? I hope you see that this fails. In computer science, we call it infinite recursion... and it leads to a crashing system or program.]. You do not need to sell anything physically as your preferred customers buy from you. MV provide its distributors with great tools (most of them are for free), company maintains distributor’s websites – much like in franchise systems but at the fraction of the cost.

In MV to be successful, you can do it with fewer people than in many other MLM companies.

In a typical MLM distributors sponsor only 1.5 people. To be successful in MV you need to have 3-4 builders on each of your two consumers’ networks. You get this from having 10-12 active distributors on each side. To do that you sign about 20 people on each side. So to find the total of 40 people – successful distributor is talking to about 200 people over the course of months or years. There is no requirement to recruit lots of people, or minimum per month, distributors do it to create their personal lines of sponsorship which will be sustainable if they want to make really good money.

[Editor's Note: So one person has to find 40 people to be a "successful distributor" (your words). That sounds like a very sustainable model (sarcasim)... and it is a pyramid.]

Argument that everybody is in MonaVie to make money, manipulating data from IDS report showing that most of people fail in making any money is another tactic that juice-scam guys are using to prove something that cannot be proved.

[Editor's Note: There isn't anyone manipulating data from the IDS. Is it our fault that MonaVie is Embarrassed by Their Income Disclosure Statement? The fact that you spent so much time here going on about MonaVie's business model shows me that it's not about the juice. It could be about selling magic beans.]

In order to buy MV products, would it be juice or energy drinks people join in MV as preferred customers or distributors. There are tons of distributors in the system who joined as distributors to be able to pay bulk prices or to recommend it to others to get some discounts but they have no intention to build business. It does not mean they have to stock up with MV products and they are required to run with bottles to sell juice. Come one guys – what a waste of everybody’s time to build such a great website on misconceptions.

I buy only for my own family’s consumption and I encourage my downline to do just that and a few bottles more to have it for sharing with others if they want. This is why your wife even had the opportunity to try this product MonaVie Scam.

MV is providing logistics, infrastructure to sell products. MV distributors are basically distributing message, not products.

Admit it, most of you failed in this yourselves. You hoped it would be a pyramid, you hoped you did not have to work and you would make money because you joined before others. It turned out MV is legitimate business and you had to work hard as in any business to be successful. So now as disgruntled former independent MV distributors you are discouraging others from joining so that your failures do not look so bad in the mirror.

[Editor's Note: Except that you essentially admitted that MonaVie is a pyramid above when you said that the business was about recruiting more and more people. If you replace the MonaVie product with packets of bills worth $100,000 -- you'd have... guess what... a pyramid. You are just trying to justify it by saying that "I only have to convince 40 that it's a good idea to give this company their money and I'll get paid."]

And while we are the topic of pyramids… I think this case is very relevant:

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2003/07/nexgen.shtm

I believe almost everything that the FTC is against in that report applies to MonaVie.

Here’s a more detailed court document of the case: http://www.ftc.gov/os/2003/07/nexgen3kcomplaint.htm. The terms that do no apply points 37, 38, 39 that talk about disclosure that most people would lose money. MonaVie may be covered by it’s Income Disclosure Statement. Still, disclosure of the crime, does not absolve you of the crime. It’s not like I can tell someone that I’m going to kill them and then kill them with no legal repercussions.

I’ll let you all review it, but I expect to write an article about it (and how it compares to MonaVie) shortly.

I welcome comments of course.

Guys – just answer me one question, would Ernst & Young give its top award to someone who knowingly is engaged in pyramid-based business. If according to you MV is a pyramid why don’t you go to FTC or police and report it? They would get shut down if you were right.

It seems to me that is impossible to engage with you in a civil conversation about MLM or network marketing because you just do not get it. You have expressed a flaw in your thinking making wrong assumption that everybody is in MV building and recruiting. MLM is a legitimate way of distributing products to the end users eliminating expensive advertising, and unneccesary brokers in the supply chain. First, all of the participants in the MV network are end-users for MV products, and some of them are network builders as well.

Tom said: “Guys – just answer me one question, would Ernst & Young give its top award to someone who knowingly is engaged in pyramid-based business.”

Well obviously the answer is yes. Dallin Larsen is “knowingly” engaged in a pyramid scheme, and it’s not his first endeavor in the scam-juice arena. Ernst & Young probably didn’t know about Larsen’s Royal Tongan Limu fiasco. It’s not like the E&Y ‘award’ has any great meaning. It’s just a meager vanity award that means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. You idiots just cling to it for dear life because you think that it buys you legitimacy, the same way you desperately cling to the Inc 500 BS, even though a more far more reputable business publication — Forbes magazine — eviscerated Monavie (and Orrin Woodward) — referring to it as, you guessed it, a “pyramid scheme”. If you were even remotely open-minded, you couldn’t possibly bleat on about Ernst & Young, while ignoring the fact that Forbes utterly trashed Monavie. Not to mention the other numerous reputable sources that have done the same. Quit being so obtuse. It won’t score you any points here.

Tom said: “It seems to me that is impossible to engage with you in a civil conversation about MLM or network marketing because you just do not get it.”

If it seems that way to you, perhaps it’s because you have a dogmatic denialist mentality about Monaavie and refuse to consider the merits of ANY criticsm, while you fail to put any pertient facts on the table…bonehead! Stop blowing wind out of your arse and you might find that the conversation becomes a lot more civil. Your silly whining is nothing short of pathetic. But of course, you aren’t here to debate and you have no intention of learning anything. Your efforts here have been nothing more than a feeble attempt at damage control. You’re failing miserably.

Everybody who is a builder in MV has preferred customers who buy from us through websites which we rent from the company. It is easy, convenient, as we do not run with any bottles to sell.

As far as percentage of sales coming from retail customers it is different for each individual distributor, for the company overall I am sure it is in compliance with FTC.

There are plenty of incentives for any distributor to obtain retail sales.

There is no requirement for anybody to invest $1000’s in worthless juice as you call it. So I wonder what do they complain to FTC about. That they are nuts, or they can not turn off the auto-ship option?

JuiceScam, I’m not certain where in Europe Tom resides however, the Global Policies and Procedures (UK) confirms the following:

SECTION 5. RETAIL SALES AND ORDERING
5.1 Selling to End Consumers. The MonaVie opportunity is built on selling Products to end consumers. Your primary opportunity as a Distributor is to develop and maintain Customers. We also allow you to purchase Product that you may use as a sales tool and that you and your family may consume. You agree to not purchase more Product than what you can resell to your Customers in a reasonable period of time.
5.2 Participation in the Compensation Plan. You must fulfil the following sales requirements to be eligible for participating in the Compensation Plan.
5.2.1 Each order you place must comply with the 70% rule as set forth in Section 6.1.
5.2.2 You must sell Products to at least five Customers each month.

There is also Section 6.1 which refers to the 70% rule and states “You shall personally sell, consume, or use in business building at least 70% of the Product from every order placed with the Company prior to plac¬ing another order. You agree to validate to such uses if required by the Company or by any regulatory agency. No Bonuses may be paid to any Distributor unless it is based on the sale of MonaVie Products to end users.”

Tom – the spirit of such rules (which are in fact anti-pyramiding laws) is to ensure that selling is a vital aspect to being a distributor and that distributors do not merely sell distributorships.

You have confirmed that both you and your downline have no customers and have not engaged in any selling of the product whatsoever, thus you have all been collecting commissions and bonuses that you were never entitled to be paid.

This has occurred as a direct result of Monavie’s lack of monitoring to ensure that distributors such as yourself are complying with company policy and thus also complying with the law.

I refer you to the case of Webster vs Omnitrition International whereby the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled that the company was in fact a pyramid scheme, despite having a 70% rule and buyback provisions, on the basis that the company was unable to provide evidence of enforcing of its policies. Furthermore, the court also found that consumption by a distributor’s downline didn’t necessarily satisfy the requirement for sales to be made to the “ultimate user”.
http://www.mlmlaw.com/library/guides/Primer.htm

As per your description, you are engaged in pyramiding activities, those in your downline are engaged in same and I can only presume you are “duplicating” what your upline has shown you also.

Clearly Monavie’s lack of monitoring to ensure that it’s sales force are receiving commissions and bonuses based on bona fide sales to end users and it’s own policy which suggests self-consumption is enough to satisfy the 70% rule is an indication that the boundaries of the law are being pushed by the company also.

In light of all of the above, I’d say you’d be “hoping” that the company are in compliance with the law rather than being certain of that – particularly given the facts suggest otherwise.

The 70% “rule” has been interpreted differently by various sources. Some say that it means 70% of all sales must be retail; other see it as a policy to dissuade front-end loading – the distributor must use/sell 70% of their product inventory before reordering. Regardless of how it’s interpreted, Monavie doesn’t enforce it any way whatsoever.

And yes Tom, the scam that you have been feebly defending with all your limited intellectual might is in fact a pyramid scheme, regardless of the 70% rule; regardless of the fact that juice is deficient in nutrients and hopelessly overpriced and promoted publically by convicted thieves and pedophiles. Nice bunch of trash you’re running with there Tom.

Tom,
Your the best. You amaze me with your psycho-babble and the redundant crap you keep posting here. The odd thing is, we keep trying to reason with you. You obviously are not able to reason or be capable of even one logical thought. You said “It seems to me that is impossible to engage with you in a civil conversation about MLM or network marketing”. A civil conversation would be easy but an intelligent conversation would be unattainable with you. I don’t think even an unreasonable person could believe the crap you continue to spew here. For that reason I think you must be a compulsive liar. You appear to be an objectionable, obnoxious person and taken as a whole, without any redeeming qualities. I think you would be better served at one of the MV sites. At least until you get your head out of your a**

Tom, in the 1979 ruling where it was determined that Amway was not a pyramid scheme due to various policies which encouraged retail selling and the fact that the company enforced these policies, Amway confirmed during the course of the proceedings

“But, by several rules, Amway requires that commissions are not paid unless the products are sold to consumers. Distributors must each sell to ten retail customers every month; the distributors must certify that 70% of the products purchased by them during the month have been resold; and inventory loading is further deterred by a rule requiring distributors to buy back the inventory of any of their sponsored distributors leaving the business.”
http://www.mlmlaw.com/library/cases/mlm/ftc/amway.htm

As per Amway’s description, the above rules were not only designed to prevent inventory loading but also in existence to ensure that selling Amway products was a vital aspect to being a distributor and to ensure distributors were not engaged in selling of distributorships – I think it’s safe to assume Monavie have adopted such policies for the same reasons.

I have already quoted case law (Webster vs Omnitrition International) whereby it was suggested that self-consumption was not enough to satisfy the 70% rule and rules concerning sales being made to end users and thus, I have shown you that Monavie are clearly pushing the boundaries of the law into un-chartered terrain – which is in stark contradiction to Randy Schroeder’s assurances that they are more than within these boundaries.

You haven’t been able to construct a remotely plausible argument and you certainly haven’t been adequately trained by Monavie to handle the objections of people such as us who have gone to the trouble to researching about both Monavie and the industry.

I’m sorry your feelings have gotten hurt in the process of having any point you’ve attempted to make obliterated by those of us who are obviously more knowledgeable however, your ignorance is going to do far more damage while you continue to lure unsuspecting family and friends into this farcical venture.

There is a difference between detergents or cosmetics which are not used up within a month and a beverage which is highly consumable product. How can someone who buys one case of juice load up any inventory if he would drink it all before one month is over. Once case is definitely not enough for me, I drink 2 or 3 cases myself. This is what experts mean saying that MV has a highly-consumable product

You are good just in theory, not in practical knowledge of the industry nor the company, as you never worked as distributor in a MLM company. Simply speaking, you are detached from reality.

“It could potentially be argued that the fact that Monavie distributors are required to make minimum monthly purchases via autoship in exchange for the right to continue to collect commissions is inventory loading”

As I said in “How Much Does MonaVie Cost?” topic – You still do not get the difference in what one distributor actually orders and sells.

Yes – each distributor sells products – but not necessarily delivering physically the bottles the their end-customers – most often through distributor’s own internet websites

As I said, based on my experience an autoship order should be enough to cover own consumption and whatever distributor needs to share it with prospective customers or distributors.

Retail customers can order on their own through distributors’ own web sites – sales count to distributor but distributor does not have to order physically for every customer who wants to buy from him or her.

Do you finally get it?

Stop spreading lies about MV and the pyramid scheme. MV is a legitimate MLM business.

You are not objective, you remain biased, make your own conclusions even though you are given so much evidence that MV is legitimate business.

I would not be suprised if MV finally kicks you a$$ for spreading lies – if you are stupid and have no cover – you will lose your shirt defending yourself in the court of law and arguing practically and not just potentially whether or not you are right. If Xowii files a suit vs. MV based on e-mails sent to their distributors by MV distributors – you guys are in a big $$it providing so much evidence of your ill-willed intentions.

If you believe MV is engaged in illegal activities rather than bashing MV on your website you should report this “fact” to proper authorities.

If you don’t – you subject yourselves to a potential legal action. I hope Xowii lawsuit will teach you something – it is easy to sue anybody in the United States, and the potential damage you make to the company by calling it a scam can easily count in millions of dollars.

Me,
Maybe you have been duped by all you read on this website. Why should I stop swallowing MV – I like the taste and I like what it does for me?

It is adding up just fine for me

Is this really all you have to say? Have you actually read what this Internet Mall case was realy about? This has no relevance and no similarity whatsoever to MV. You’re just using a smoke-screen for the lack of better argument.

You did not know 70% rule – used wholesale prices incorrectly – allowed your friends to go on a rampage offending people – so digest these things first before you say anything “new”. Use V8 or other high-quality juice because we all know you are allergic big time to MV.

Tom states “How can someone who buys one case of juice load up any inventory if he would drink it all before one month is over. Once case is definitely not enough for me, I drink 2 or 3 cases myself. This is what experts mean saying that MV has a highly-consumable product”

Firstly, whilst Monavie may be consumable per say the product is not marketable – primarily due to price. My own friend has confirmed his inability to sell the product and this is clearly why it’s easier for you and your downline (and upline whom you are “duplicating”) to distribute the message instead of selling the product.

It needs to be drawn to your lack of attention that whilst the intention of the 70% rule remains debatable (this is also because the term “inventory loading” is not clear either), the 70% rule as per Monavie terms and conditions is tied to “Retail Sales” and as per Section 6.1, bonuses are not supposed to be paid unless these relate to sales to end users (one of the operative words in that statement would also be “sales”).

The facts remain that
1) You are making purchases with no intention to sell (as confirmed by yourself)
2) These purchases are being made for the pure intention of collecting bonuses and commissions (again, this is what has been considered by some courts to be inventory loading)
3) You have no customers and neither do your downline (as also confirmed by yourself – you had the opportunity to verify the existence of preferred customers which, as expected, you failed to do)
4) AND you are collecting bonuses you were never entitled to claim due to the fact that these relate to purchases of the products you and your downline made and not due to any “sales” made
5) Monavie do not care as to whom or if the juice is sold to anyone outside the scheme – their lack of monitoring of their own internal policies and payment of bonuses and commissions to people such as yourself who were never entitled to be paid considering all you have done is recruit confirms this

Your lack of rational thinking is astounding – you fail to see that the scheme is nothing more than an internal transfer of money up the chain, money which has come primarily from the investments and purchases of Monavie’s own sales force (as confirmed by your own description of the activities of distributors such as yourself and such as my own friend) rather than from bona fide sales to customers outside the scheme, and thus Monavie is as defined by the law a PYRAMID scheme.

Prior to now, your behaviour could have been excused due to ignorance (you didn’t have the sense to misrepresent your activities – although you’re trying to back peddle now) however you have now been armed with the tools to determine that the legality of your own activities and the venture hugely questionable and that you are luring your family in friends into such a scheme whereby let’s not forget, 99.64% of participants losing money.

You are a truly despicable individual.

If I sell or share a couple bottles with some people and they want to become a distributor is that not considered a “customer”? What is it considered? They are now ordering the product every month…Yes they are distributors but they are also customers at the same time….They are using a product and they are sharing/selling the product to be used by others. Nothing is being stacked like some Papers there is not inventory loading the product is being shared/sold and used…..

You confirmed that MonaVie isn’t about retail customers. There’s no need to say we produce our “own facts” when you did it for us. The “paper” trail is there for all to see.

As for being open-minded, I wrote that post long ago Being Open-Minded About MonaVie. The credibility of this website is clear. It point out all sorts of issues with MonaVie… none of which actually address.

Tom said, “It is really hard to believe that you do not get paid for what you are doing.” It may be hard for Tom to believe, but some people donate their time to make the world a better place.

Steve D says “If I sell or share a couple bottles with some people and they want to become a distributor is that not considered a “customer”? What is it considered? They are now ordering the product every month…Yes they are distributors but they are also customers at the same time”

So what you’re saying is that you have a product you’re unable to sell to anyone without having it tied to the ahem….opportunity?!

And you feel comfortable investing in a company whose profits are derived from the investments and purchases of its own sales force?!

And neither you or our resident genius, Tom have figured out the fundamental flaws in this business (which has little to no genuine revenue as a result of bona fide sales from customers not associated with the scheme) and that it fits the definition of a pyramid scheme.

Theres just no excuse for your ongoing ignorance.

I don’t really care for monavie but one question to you all. Maybe I’m dumb or something, lol. But if Monavie is an illegal Pyramid scheme, wouldn’t the government just shut them down? Or do something about them?

Lee,
the reasons product based pyramid schemes continue is a good question. Robert fitzpatrick of pyramidschemealert.org suggests it may be due politcal Contributions by mlm companies to the republican party, lobbying efforts by the industry and political appointments made during the bush administration.

My opinion is that there is not a tremendous amount of public outcry against them. Those that are involved in the schemes do not want them shut down. When these same individuals do fail, they blame themselves as they had been taught about all the other previous failures. Also many who lost in the pyramid scheme may have been intoduced to the scheme by a friend or family member whom they care for that may still be part of the scheme. Many would not want to be the whistle blower which could harm the relationship, so you take your losses and move on.

So since politicians mostly hear the pleads of the mlm industries to leave their free enterprise alone and very few complaints to end them they take the easy route. Why upset some vocal constituants when there does not appear to be much political gain.

im an ibo, but no longer bother with the business, not worth my time or money, its all a waste. talk about this all you want, nothing you can say to change my mind, but i see people talk about growth and say why is it growing so rapidly in so many contries, the best answer i can give is that when people approch you about monavie, they are usually friends and family and wehen they talk to you they make all these claims that they believe in so much because they are being told this from people they believ in wehich i like to call a cult. and when the people you trust and know tell you this and they sound excited about this, mkes you believe this so they get in thinking they will get rich. and healthy when infact you dont get any healthier, just wasting alote of money on a juice thats nothing more then mis leading info, and nothing on the lable states health, just ingreeddence and alote of 0’s percents, so not much health in that expensive dark bottle of glass and juice. i changed over to drinking v8 fusion. anyways when people get approched by others close to them they trust what they say and get into it but how many stay in it all that long, alote of them come on hear and other sites and brag up what its dont for them but im sure they quit soon after when they r broke and not getting any further because opeople stop buying and they dont get paid unless they buy. think about it. and i know scam got into the talk about pay a little saying something along the lines of you need atleast 1000 people buying below you to make any real money but i would like to see an indepth artical on how the pay goes and the math behind it and the usual stuff that scam does for us fans of this blog site.
keep up the great wrk scam and food tech and vongel sorry if i miss spelled, im not a great speller, but im going back to finish my reading on comments.

hey thanks, vogel, its nice to read truth from real people with a real life and real personalities. im not able to talk as good as you guys can but i do really have fun reading from you guys and it helps me get stronger to try and prove my mother wrong about this company who is acting like a cult, now i know this doesnt have anything to do with this topic of blog but i called her today to tell her something i found out of another family member and she previsualy tried to convince this so and so to sign up, which didnt happen because again the price, i asked her about my fathers life who i dont talk with anymore and when my mom asked if i talked with heer and spoke badly about monavie, i said i told her she was right not to join after she told me the price was too high. i say wise choice, my mom said dont say anything else bad about monavie, just because you lost your dreams doesnt mean you have to ruin others dreams and possibilities, i found this very hurtfull. and a family breakdown between how i look at my mother who usto be my best friend, now i only see as a blood member . anyways monavie is a cult and i stick to that and im sorry again about not talking about the topic, but i do feel welcome. and also i chose to stop monavie because i wanted to keep my wife who i knew deep down inside knew this was a scam but tried to support me, and now we stopped we have more money and we r having more fun because we r living our bigest dream, loving our family.

id number 2795783
i believe at one point or another that the government will shut down the business but i believe since they r getting their txes and such they dont mind and also i believe the government is crupt in there ways and never stop things like this allowing us meaning me and others to get sucked into the hype of the pyramid scam and allow us to learn the hard way lucky for me i leaqrned fast, and didnt spend more rthen 15 hundred or so give or take into the business, i guess that price based on 5 or so cases on average 176.23 to my door, and i bought alote of energy drink cases and alote of tools and being on systen and maybe sot for the tickets, and travel and time for phones so i say more then 2 grand. so maybe i got suckered but i learned in about less then 3 months. but kept iut up for 3 months or more.

While I’m here let me state the obvious in regards to all jobs being pyramids… The first day an employee of walmart, mcdonalds, etc punches out they have made more than 99% of all Mona vie ibo’s combined. The difference between Mona vie and a legitimate company is that the later does not force manditory expenses upon you.

Now I know the standard come back is Mona vie is free if you work the system. But that’s like mc donalds offering a job at $7/hour and at the end of the day requiring a $60 big mac purchase.

100% of employees at legitimate companies earn some form of compensation
99% of Mona vie distributors have historically lost money regardless of hours worked

this is not due to effort but the mathematical pre determined outcome of the scheme. While any one person can conceivably make money everyone can not. In fact over 90% have to lose, even in a perfectly built model, forget about all the money lost in the longer leg of the binary plan.

It’s just occurred to me that I may have possibly misinterpreted Lee’s statement – which was a little unclear and ambiguous as to his/her position.

My apologies if this is the case.

Anonymous Aussie, WTF was all that about, I think that Monavie is a scam, lol. Get your facts straight post please!

Jim, what is your other sites?

Lee – you’re entirely correct that it is ridiculous that these types of scams are able to exist in this day and age AND when you’d think consumers would be aware of how to identify a legitimate opportunity as opposed to a questionable venture such as Monavie (particularly given the availability of facts that support both the product and opportunity are bogus).

Although, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that these types of scams tend to flourish in times of greater economic hardship either – there’s no doubt consumers are far more vulnerable during periods of financial pressure.